The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

Not sure if this is the correct place to bring this up, but I noticed that the description of Ginormo Sword does not include a link to play the game, despite it being a freely available Flash browser game. I assume that this is because, as the page warns us, the game contains nudity.

Now, I haven't gotten very far in the game, but the only nudity I've seen so far is from the Harpy monsters, who seem to have exposed breasts, with one blocky pixel that may or may not be meant to represent a nipple. Would it be OK to add a link to the game? It's not like it's a H-Game.

IIRC, it isn't really kosher to advertise links like that to start with. Or at least a grey area when it comes to free works. I'd ask the admins.

So sayeth the Gods.

edited 16th May '18 6:08:37 AM by carbon-mantis

Ehhhhhh. We don't like to "advertise" works, so linking out to commercial distribution sites (like Amazon or Netflix) is not permitted. However, webcomics and other free works that are sourced online can generally be linked to so long as they aren't NSFW (see: Oglaf). Pixelated titties aren't enough for me to be concerned about that.

I did a GIS and the graphics in that game are so incredibly primitive that it would take a healthy dose of imagination to draw prurience from those female enemies. I don't see an issue as far as this thread's concerned.

Gonna read A Girl on the Shore

Having recently read it and done work on its page, it's got enough questionable material in it from the wiki's perspective that I wouldn't be surprised if it gets cut.

True; I ordered it off Amazon.

edited 24th May '18 10:10:12 PM by Willbyr

It has also been fully published in the west without any kind of age restrictions and can be bought in places like Barnes and Noble.

It is shrinkwrapped in most bookstores (at least when I saw it at BAM and Barnes and Noble), and has an "AGES 18+" warning on the back. Of course, that doesn't actually mean anything (I've bought M-rated/shrinkwrapped manga while underage without ever being questioned, and even chatting with the cashiers about said manga).

Ok, A Girl on the Shore. The art conveys a perfectly depressing feeling of loneliness.

Beyond that, there's a lot of explicit teenage sex. It does feel like it's in service to a narrative about teen sexuality and how painful growing up is. But it's still quite graphic. On the fence if it's trying to be deliberately sexy or just as depressing as the rest of the manga.

edited 12th Jun '18 7:20:45 AM by DrPsyche

As long as it tells a proper story that isn't just boobs for boobs sake I'm pretty sure it's okay.

You know, Berserk is allowed and that has a lot of graphic sex and rape, but it's fine because there's a pretty big story and reasons for why that is taking place.

The apparent problem here is that it's junior high students. Junior high students having explicit sex is judged by different rules.

I'd still be inclined to keep it myself, but it's not a situation where all characters involved in sexual situations are adults.

edited 13th Jun '18 1:28:23 AM by Ramidel

I saw that the Italian graphic novel Druuna was brought up a few years back. Or rather, the game based on it, Druuna: Morbus Gravis. Never played it, but I understand it's incredibly chaste compared to the comics.

Is anyone else familiar enough with the comic to judge whether it can have a page, locked or otherwise? There's erotic content in it, but I will argue that there is a plot that can be meaningfullly troped, and in fact is much more prominent than the sexual scenes. I've detected numerous ones such as Death Seeker, Journey to the Center of the Mind, Cloning Blues, Author Avatar, Kill and Replace, etc.

Finished A Girl on the Shore. Depressing but introspective. Kind of surprised Isobe wasn't in the last chapter. Like he just up and leaves. We don't even get an epilogue for him. Guess that's just up to us.

Now content: This is extremely graphic. Penis is censored for the most part but we see enough of the teenagers having penetrative and oral sex. There's some scat that's just offscreen, depictions of fluids, and the like.

I'm just about leaning towards an angel head with this one. The sex isn't framed in an appealing way even if there is a lot of it. There is a point to it, with ideas of adult hood and the preconceived notions that children have about it, what growing up means, and what it doesn't mean, etc. All of the hooking up is dispassionate and feeds their lack of understanding about maturity and their depression. I say keep, but the sheer quantity of graphic content does make me understand if anyone votes to cut.

I'm submitting a report for a page and related subpages I'm sure fail the test of the P5 committee

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/UchiNoMusumeNiTeODasuNa

Note, this work is officially published and licensed for sale in the US, but frankly, having read it, it has the same level of sexual content as Seikon no Qwaser, which is already banned here.

Another strike against it is that while the main story is already approaching SNQ levels of sexual content, it has several outright porn sequels and tie-ins, all of which are known to be Canon and fill in many plot relevant blanks in the main plot, thus you cannot avoid mentioning them as they are integral to the story.

Toss in several extremely graphic sex scenes (including one where the main protagonist is raped by a bunch of little boys and several other brutal scenes of other forms of rape), and that strikes any mention of the sequels and tie-ins from the site. Even the main story treads on thin ice to the point it breaks with several rape scenes, and a few times we can see full nudity in a sexual content, and there are several scenes of graphically obvious incest in both the main story and supplemental material.

And, as I mentioned before, these are all canon to the main story, often fill in supplementary details and expanding on several scenes mentioned in the main story, so you can't avoid covering them if you want to cover the whole story, but by site rules, you can't because they violate site rules on content.

SNQ was not banned on sexual content grounds, but on the grounds of underage sexual content, i.e. Ekaterina the loli dominatrix.

The scene with little boys sounds like a problem, but dial back the "can't" and "must," alright? We have banned adaptational material before without banning the core.

edited 24th Jun '18 5:29:03 AM by Ramidel

And probably vice versa too

Ramidel, I apologize if I seemed overly harsh, that was not my intention.

It bears mentioning there are several scenes of incestual content involving very young children in the main work as well (not as explicit as the side material, but the context is clear, as it's made clear at least one of the villains has had incestual relations with their children of varying ages)

As for your contention you can ban one half without banning the core, that would mean considerable chunks of the currently existing pages would need to be gutted, often to the point of leaving them blank or nearly so, the hentai side material and the main work are that intertwined.

I'm as loathe to ask anything be censored as you are, but given the canonical inter-dependency of the main work and it's side material (discussing one would mean ignoring the other, which fills in lots of plot holes in the other), I'm afraid it would be impossible to merely stick with certain aspects of the story when they all get rolled together.

Finally, if we are going ban based merely on underage sexual content, while not shown in graphic detail, another mainstream work by the same author, Dance in the Vampire Bund, it also has several scenes of unambiguous sexual relations between young children and adults or near adults, one character in particular is confirmed to be in a sexual relationship with a ten year old boy she turned into a vampire, though we are not shown this in graphical sexual majesty, but the nature of said relationship is quite clear.

If I am wrong, well and good, but if not, I'd rather play on the side of caution lest the ad sponsors for TV Tropes disagree.

edited 24th Jun '18 9:00:02 AM by GethN7

Be at ease. According to the current admins, we're no longer facing the threat of Googlethulhu rising from the deep to drop our ads with no guidance as to what is proper or not. Those days are gone; we're handling allegedly prurient works by our own standards.

I don't think we'd lose anything by dropping DitVB, but I think we've kept more risque works than that.

My gratitude for the clarification.

Still, given the keeping of such works is generally against the standards here and I saw enough explicit content in the work(s) I mentioned to merit additional review, I felt it prudent to bring this to the attention of the P5.

Ok, I read Uchi no Musume ni Te o Dasu na!, and I voted to Angel Head it. The base manga is ecchi, and does stress the edge of our policies yes. I feel that there is a plot, beyond the whole sex appeal to it.

That and it's not as graphic as Girl on the Shore or say the Rock Cocks. The sex scenes are also less plentiful than that those and less explicit. Nipples aren't censored, but genitals are. There's a few dubious scenes, but honestly I feel better angel heading this one than Girl on the Shore.

With that said, the spin offs and supplementary work are hentai. Graphic detailed sex that far exceeds the original comic not to mention a scene where the heroine is raped by a group of underage sociopaths. The spin offs continue the story but the OG manga tells a fairly complete tale without the aid of hentai. Even though the donjins expand on certain scenes those aren't necessary. At the very least the page needs a touch up.

Edited by DrPsyche on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:55:21 AM

An update on Tsugumomo that may be relevant to the P5 (I don't think a consensus was ever made on this one): the North American home video release has been censored to remove some devious scenes of loli/underage nudity.

I would consider that reasonable.

The sequel/spinoff material I know for sure crosses the line. The main story is an edge case, but likely would fly under the radar, if only barely, but if it did, I'd consider that fair enough.

Gonna start Awkward Silence.

Re: Druuna: Since there has been no response/input to my questionaire two months ago, I thought I'd sandbox my proposal and put it up for review by the more experienced members here.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Aug 10th 2018 at 9:31:03 AM

So, Awkward Silence. I've encountered a couple of sex scenes, they push it a bit with how much we can allow. There's a story at least, and the sex scenes don't feel too inservice to it. I'll keep looking.

@ Morgenthaler: This is for the comic right? Not the video game?

Edited by DrPsyche on Aug 19th 2018 at 10:26:53 PM