The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

In addition to getting rid of the banner, can we get rid of the custom title, as it makes the page look like a blue link?

Redlinking it in place of that banner that is rather rude to anyone who clicks the link would be rather nice. Clicking a random link should not lead to a page of "We do not want your kind here! Go away, no edit stuff like this," will simply continue to put people off.

I'd say Dream Savior Gakuen isn't porn. It's doesn't have any elements that encourage or even appear to be paedophilia either.

I located a copy and played the game to try and save more people from having to play it.

This is the author's post on a fan-made visual novels forum, and probably the best source of information on the game.

The author also has a Deviant Art account.

The author explicitly says "This game does not contain any hentai/yaoi. Its geared more towards the romantic side." From my one playthrough this appears to be the case.

Apparently although intended to be Boy×Boy, you can name and consider the character you are playing female - Which I did to attempt to maintain my sanity.

For reference the character sprites never change from the ones you see on the line up on the Dream Savior Gakuen page ([1]◊),

I couldn't find any sex on my playthrough, and the most objectionable thing I found was running into this on the sports field◊. You spend most of your time looking at the same sprites with the visual novel-type interface. The dialogue is mostly about attending art school, with primary focus being on just talking with the other characters.

Although he is 13◊ pursuing Jaja will just result in you winding up with his brother, in case any one is wondering about that part of it.

The download link listed on the page appears to work, but it's very slow, so I just downloaded it from some random file-sharing place.

I can answer questions about this game, provide more screenshots etc, but I'm really hoping I don't have to play it again. Although I can't say it's bad, it's clearly fan-made and not the sort of thing I'd read through again given the choice.

So Meeble was wondering in the Popotan thread how young/young-seeming the characters were. Well, I checked out the anime OP (SFW), and Mii (the purple-haired girl with the hair buns) appears to be really, really young compared to the rest of the cast. Given that this show is apparently very fanservice-heavy, and the game definitely paedo-panders (link rather less SFW), it probably warrants a more in-depth look despite the Bleached Underpants.

edited 3rd Jun '12 4:33:43 AM by Iaculus

Since I noticed that Giallo is on the CVR, I have to say that in my experience sex (the "psychosexually" bit in the description) is not a focus part of these stories. I.e, it's not usually rape/rape-and-murder porn.

So, I've been reading Demonbane and thus I can bring up some information on it.

• When are the sex scenes located?: The first one is maybe a quarter of the way through the story. The next is at perhaps the two third mark and they continue intermittently from there.
  • Are they spread out over the game?: Yes. The overall number has not been that great so far, though.
    • How much gameplay is there between sex scenes?: Hours of reading at least.
  • Are they only at the endings?: No.
    • How hard do you have to work to get an ending?: Quite a lot of reading. There's minimal decision making.
    • Are they in every ending? Every good ending?: Yeah, you'll see sex before you get any ending.
• Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?: No.
• Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?: Yes.
• Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?: Stills.
• How explicit are the sex scenes?: Inconsistent. Sometimes genitals become invisible, sometimes they're there. Mostly vanilla sex however there are definitely some underaged looking girls, at least one of which has already had a sex scene. They have the standard Really 700 Years Old thing going on, but that's never mattered much. To my eye, they look maybe twelve to fourteen. Oh, and I'd say they act like late teens or young adults.

Okay, obviously, pedo stuff is bad. However, this had what I believe was a clean anime and definitely has a clean PS 2 version. The story isn't even really a romance, it's some sort of really cheesy Lovecraft Lite junk. I thus recommend that instead of cutting it, we reduce this to a bleached underpants version, which shouldn't be hard since the sex scenes are some of the least sexy I have ever seen in a visual novel. The art, ugh. I don't think anyone wants to talk about those. It definitely passes the 'not porn' test.

I second bleaching underpants.

I have read the English version by jast usa Arha's assessment is accurate.

edit: Also it has an anime which by all accounts is pretty tame.

edited 3rd Jun '12 3:09:48 PM by Shadis

Giallo looks like a varied genre of films not a porn trope at all.

Giallo is a type of Italian horror that was popular in the 1970s and had a bit of a resurgence thanks to the later works of Dario Argento (who was a major Giallo figure in the 70s as well). A large chunk of them are incredibly violent, especially the films of Mario Bava and Zombi2, but on an almost unilateral level, I am certain they are not porn. They don't even get as bad as Euroschlock in most cases. If people have questions about individual films in the Giallo canon, I'd be happy to get more information.

edited 3rd Jun '12 3:58:42 PM by LargoQuagmire

While I voted to cut one of Jay Naylor's porn works (Huckleberry Ann, I think it was), what I saw of his other works Better Days and Original Life don't seem to be porn or pedo-pandering in the slightest.

Based on this, I'm giving Main.Jay Naylor it's third angel vote.

x7: The link you posted there was for the opening for the game (which is an H-Game, and will almost definitely be cut). The anime is a Bleached Underpants situation, so it's probably best to keep it clear which we're talking about when.

As for the anime itself, Mii is definitely underage, and is she is seen topless in bath scenes. However, the precedent set by Strike Witches is that this isn't a reason in and of itself to cut something. It makes it borderline at best, though, so I would recommend that P5 look over the anime and judge it for pedo-pandering (it's certainly not pure porn, but pedo-pandering is a possible issue). I did watch it a while back, but it was too long ago for me to be able to say how much it panders.

@Septimus Heap: By "psychosexually," they mean that crime in giallo cinema often has a strong Freudian undercurrent—violence is sexual, sex is violence, etc.—rather than that it directly focuses on depictions of sexual acts or even overtly sexual violence. (All of my friends are film buffs. I know this stuff. Also, Profondo Rosso is win.)

edited 3rd Jun '12 5:46:53 PM by JHM

Reading through the page for Heir to the Empire , I'm not really seeing anything that would give anyone cause to flag it. Is anyone here familiar with this fanstory?

edited 3rd Jun '12 8:06:43 PM by Komodin

...ah...a Sailor Moon and Ranma crossover... That takes me back...

Ehh. I just watched the first three episodes of popotan, and it really seemed to focus on the older two of the sisters, with the young one acting cute, but she seemed ok at keeping her dirty parts out of the camera. I don't really have any interest in watching anymore, it wasn't quite my slice of cake from what I saw, but it does not look like it is nearly as bad as the evil H-Game it was based on.

I could keep going if we don't have a review on it yet, but I won't be too exceptionally excited.

I happened to have Popotan dvds that I picked up at a store closing sale, so I started checking it out too. Only watched the first episode so far, but I find it about the same as Roraborialis. The only particularly "fanservicey" moments I noticed were with the older sister. Mii (the youngest) seems to have this thing for squishy things that includes breasts, but since she basically approaches breasts, frogs, cows, and this boy's face the same way it comes across as cute rather than sexual. Either way there's a lot more of what I'd call slapstick comedy than anything approaching sexual. At this point I feel like the tone would have to change a lot to even come close to matching it's reputation.

I can try and watch the rest over the next couple days if it'd be helpful. After reading some spoilers I'm kind of curious about where this is going anyway.

Yeah, the spoilers make utterly no sense with what I have seen thus far. Of course, there has not been a single name in the series which I have memorized thus far. So, this has the serious potential to suffer from Cerberus syndrome and go downhill real fast given that bit of information.... But for the moment, it seems clean.

edited 3rd Jun '12 9:08:29 PM by Roraborialis

Can we get a thread on Sono Hanabira Ni Kuchizuke Wo? I don't know anything about it, but the page mentions that there is a Bleached Underpants version of some sort.

As much as it pains me to discuss this here (and I'm surprised it wasn't raised sooner)...

Gunsmith Cats, specifically Minnie-May. Chronologically 17 / 18, looks 12 (explicitly stated to have stunted growth which is probably deliberate), mentally mature, was a teenaged hooker, really, really loves explosives (at least, that's what I vaguely recall), and has a boyfriend in his mid-thirties. This is a recurring plot element but obviously isn't the main focus of the work.

Manga is distributed by Dark Horse with an age rating of 18 and up, and with an Explicit Content advisory. Anime apparently tones down some of the questionable elements; it's even listed as "PG" on Rotten Tomatoes and "PG-13" by THEM Anime Reviews, but some of the OVAs are Unrated according to MPAA guidelines (but then again, a whole lot of innocuous DTV stuff was left unrated). I can't find a definitive rating.

I'm definitely going to be biased in my judgement, as I loved reading the manga when I was younger - memorable and badass characters, great action and attention to detail (guns and cars), and tight plotting, so much so that I glossed over that element. And yes, this was openly available where I come from. (EDIT) It doesn't help that Gunsmith Cats is Kenichi Sonoda's most famous work, and it received Harvey (Best American Edition of Foreign Material, 1997) and Tezuka Award nominations. But "problematic content" is an understatement.

So, thoughts? Note that I haven't flagged it yet. I'd like to get your opinions before I jump into anything.

edited 4th Jun '12 2:30:27 AM by Pyrite

That is...problematic. Does she gets titillating and/or fanservice-scenes?

Never watched the anime so I can't comment there. Manga-wise, there are a few scenes which could be interpreted as titillating, a couple of which are sexual in nature. These constitute a relatively small component of the series, but the character (being one of the two leads) appears very often. (Disclaimer: it's been nearly 15 years since I read it, so my memory may be a little hazy.) The explicit content is more for general violence, references to illicit activity, and some fanservice in general.

Before I forget: It was serialised in Afternoon, a seinen magazine which also serialises the likes of Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou, Ah My Goddess, Genshiken, Blade Of The Immortal, and Vinland Saga. Kodansha isn't known for serialising your standard paedobait / fap material.

edited 4th Jun '12 4:04:02 AM by Pyrite

I've not seen the manga for Gunsmith Cats but the anime is very tame, with little fanservice, no sexual content, no prostitutes, etc. If the manga is really that much of a problem (I strongly suspect it isn't) then we can just have a page on the anime.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/releases.php?id=2555

This rates the anime version as being for 12+.

The entire series can be watched here:

http://www.watchcartoononline.com/anime/gunsmith-cats

It is only three episodes. It will take less than 90 minutes to watch the whole thing.

edited 4th Jun '12 5:03:52 AM by Catbert

It's been more than ten years sine I read the manga for Gunsmith Cats, but the only explicit scene I recall involving Minnie May was one in which she was having A Date With Rosie Palms. I don't think she was drawn in that scene to look especially child-like.

The impression I have from what I remember is that the revelation of her past as a teenage prostitute was played for drama, not tittilation. I don't believe that this series was going for pedo-pandering. However, if others feel strongly enough that it needs a full review, I can dig those manga out and do so.

Regardless, the anime is 100% fine.

edited 4th Jun '12 5:05:48 AM by Meeble

Thanks. I'm fairly confident that the series as a whole wasn't designed to be paedobait, which was why I would have serious qualms about deciding to cut on aforementioned grounds. Still, I hope you can see why I'd have some concerns, especially if we take the available information and our guidelines at face value.

Question, though: is the listed rating on unofficial sites (e.g. ANN) usually the official MPAA rating?

Also: Now that my probable age is no longer a secret, none of you can be allowed to live.

edited 4th Jun '12 6:33:53 AM by Pyrite

Our similar length of time since reading the manga probably puts as at a similar age, so if anyone pokes fun we can just take our animus and mangos and go back to the assisted living facility where we don't have to put up with all these young whipper-snappers.

But no, it's a valid thing to bring up, as if it was a series that I wasn't familiar with I would definitely have alarm bells reading the description of Minnie May. Like I said, though, I didn't find it to be pedo-pandering when I initially read it, so I'd likely just go ahead and give it an angel based on memory unless someone felt strongly enough about it to merit a full on review.

edited 4th Jun '12 6:47:22 AM by Meeble