Page Restoration Petitions:

Total posts: [2,893]
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2326 KuroBaraHime26th Sep 2012 05:26:53 PM from Somewhere...I think
In any case, they should probably both be reviewed, if we were to re-review it. In the thread for it, Komodin and Discar read the first few manga chapters before voting angel and Meeble watched a few episodes of the anime before voting devil.
2327 Sabbo26th Sep 2012 08:54:52 PM from Australia , Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
That's odd. I had recalled that Lotte was an deemed an odd exception in that the anime was generally considered worse.

That aside, flagging the page - if you actually want to do it now - will not be a problem. Bypassing the curtain is stupidly easy, last time I checked.

EDIT: Change that; the bypass I was thinking of doesn't seem to work now. We could still flag Rotte No Omocha if we wanted though, I think... That said though, I too would rather wait until we have the full five members active before worrying about this.

EDIT2: That was... weird. The redlink above happened when I typed in this: [[RotteNoOmocha Rotte No Omocha]]. Sure it works as I wanted it to, but why did it fix the punctuation and stuff as if I typed in LotteNoOmocha?

edited 26th Sep '12 11:08:01 PM by Sabbo

2328 Morganite26th Sep 2012 09:14:23 PM from Dynamis - Firefly Alley
Something strange...
What I'd read suggested that the anime was supposed to be 'worse' in some way or other too.

I don't know, what *I* read of the manga felt like the equivalent of the routine in Comic Strip/Peanuts where Lucy pulls the football away. It keeps setting up for one kind of thing, and then runs off in another direction.
"So... the time has come for you to meet your demise..."
2329 tdgoodrich126th Sep 2012 09:26:03 PM from Atlanta , Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
Know that if/when we get to it, I will be investigating entirely on my own, so I won't be taking petitions unless I say otherwise.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
2330 Pyrite27th Sep 2012 05:27:18 AM from Right. Beneath. You. , Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
Hey, don't look at me, I didn't bring it up this time. tongue But a quick summary of the situation surrounding LnO:
  • Manga and anime should be considered independently due to their different treatment of the material. (Opinions differ. Shima and I thought the anime was cleaner; Hydronix / Irene thinks the manga's cleaner. Regardless, both require review.)
  • Original vote was 3-2 to cut, with Martello, Fast Eddie and Meeble voting to cut while Discar and Komodin voted to keep.
    • Original appeal is based on the grounds that decisions were made based on an insufficiently-large sample size of the content to be representative of the tone of the work as a whole, if the content was reviewed at all.
  • Last appeal was submitted during a period when there were only 3 active members of the 5P and many other works in the worklist. In view of the risk of getting caught in a deadlock, motioned to suspend further discussion until a full 5P could be convened.

tdgoodrich1: Independent assessment would be great. Take your time.

edited 27th Sep '12 9:20:00 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
2331 Meeble27th Sep 2012 02:33:34 PM from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
If we end up re-reviewing Lotte, I won't have a problem focusing on the Manga this time around. I took the word of the people participating at the time that the main character was more sexualized in the Manga than in the Anime, and thus when I saw enough of the Anime content to determine that it was cutworthy, based my decision off of that.

I don't see my opinion on the Anime changing much, since my cut decision was based on episodes I personally reviewed. But if those making the appeal contend that the Manga is less problematic than the anime, I will give it a fair shake.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
2332 Raidouthe21st27th Sep 2012 02:48:03 PM from Whacking trick-or-treating punks , Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Cool Dude
I think that in some respects, the manga is indeed less "bad" then the anime.
"You know you're like the A-bomb, everyone's laughing, having a good time, and you show up. BOOM! Everything's dead!"
2333 Komodin27th Sep 2012 03:00:07 PM from Windy Hill Zone , Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
Hm, after reading through the manga a while ago, while it still had more child panty shots than I'm comfortable with, I'm still for keeping it.

edited 27th Sep '12 3:00:28 PM by Komodin

2334 Morganite27th Sep 2012 08:56:39 PM from Dynamis - Firefly Alley
Something strange...
@2332: Personally, I got the impression that character was supposed to be from a species that ages more rapidly than humans. At least, the way she was portrayed felt more like an adult than a teenager.

The whole series really feels more like a subversion of 'lolicon' stories than anything else.
"So... the time has come for you to meet your demise..."
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
[up][up]I don't think the issue is with her age (though it's certainly a factor), but with the fact that she's wearing a top in the manga and is bare-chested in the show.
It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
2336 Sabbo28th Sep 2012 05:01:43 AM from Australia , Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
So were we going to keep this aside until we have five members or not? Because if we are, then talking about it now isn't going to be of much use. (And if we aren't, somebody should flag it already.)

As I said earlier, I want to wait. Let there be five members so that any decision made can be considered at least reasonably definitive.
If P5 is willing to accomandate even more discussion of Lotte, that's their buisness, but given the huge amount of discussion that there has already been on that specific show since this whole process started, before this forum was even created, I can't help but be inclined to suggest that we put off further discussion for a few months and focus on other things. My understading is that there are still pages that were cut prior to P5 that have been appealed but not yet reviewed, while Lotte has already been voted on by P5. Appealing the same stuff over and over again in the span of less than a year doesn't strike me as being very productive.

edited 28th Sep '12 5:08:52 AM by Catbert

2338 tdgoodrich128th Sep 2012 07:19:15 AM from Atlanta , Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
[up]We don't do re-reviews unless we feel that further discussion is merited. If someone were to bring up, say, Ro-Kyu-Bu again, my response would likely be this. In Lotte's case, there is currently conflicting information about which versions are better and worse, so it is worth discussing at least a partial restoration. Also people have suggested that the vote was partially on the reputation, rather than the merits.

As for the whole "wait for five members" issue, the modmins have apparently tabled that discussion.

On an entirely unrelated note, I may wind up taking the weekend off since I will be visiting my grandmother, and let's be honest, would you watch stuff like Salo in front of your grandmother?

edited 28th Sep '12 7:26:00 AM by tdgoodrich1

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
I'm an Irene!
[up] Probably not. Depends the Grandma, to be honest. If she used to be a porn star, probably yes.

Also, thanks for taking another look. I specifically want the Manga to have a taken look at. I understand those being put off by the premise.(who wouldn't?) But that alone should not determine a vote, as unlike KNJ, which is as bad as it sounds(anime is ever so slightly better, but I'd still keep it cut, personally, and I read the damn thing!), LNO is a bit too YMMV on that, especially which is "worse" or "acceptable", etc. between the two versions.
2340 MarqFJA8th Oct 2012 06:36:50 AM from Saudi Arabia , Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
One vision, one purpose
It just recently came to my attention through this thread (which got mysteriously locked, for no apparent reason) that Keep Abreast Of This Index has been cut by Eddie a few months ago with no warning. I'd like to petition for a review of said cut's reasoning and whether or not there's been misinformation involved.
Where there is Distress, therein lies a Story. Where there is a Story, therein lies a Will. Where there is a Will, therein lies a Soul.
2341 InsanityPrelude9th Oct 2012 12:12:51 AM , Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Seeing as the P5 has been on an arthouse film spree lately- Would it be appropriate to restore Euroshlock? I don't know enough about it to write out a proper defense, but as I understood it when I glanced over the page before it was cut, the sexuality is usually to shock or make a opaque point rather than to titillate.
2342 Ramidel9th Oct 2012 05:09:20 AM , Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Also, there are Euroschlock films that have been kept or restored. Thus, the genre deserves to live for that alone.
Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
2343 tdgoodrich19th Oct 2012 07:16:45 AM from Atlanta , Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
Flagged it, gave it an angel. Ain't nothing wrong with an index.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
2344 SeptimusHeap9th Oct 2012 09:00:20 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Except for "The wiki doesn't want to be an index or directory of porn", maybe. Not sure if we want to be a directory of shock material, though.
2345 Morganite9th Oct 2012 08:02:00 PM from Dynamis - Firefly Alley
Something strange...
Having pages on the material yet not not having the pages for organizing and grouping them together as being related strikes me as a somewhat confusing arrangement.

That'd sort of be my argument about the breast tropes index too. If the tropes themselves are fine (and no one here seems to be arguing otherwise, at least), and the categorization is obvious (which it is), then an index seems useful and I'm not sure what reason there would be to not have it. Sub-indices along sensible categories make it easier to find tropes when you can remember the idea, but not the name - or might not have known the name to begin with.
"So... the time has come for you to meet your demise..."
2346 JHM9th Oct 2012 09:56:15 PM from Neither Here Nor There , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Thunder, Perfect Mind
"Euroschlock" tends to apply to exploitative and shocking films, but rarely to porn per se, at least by P5 standards. Sure, Sweet Movie is repulsive and Saló is horrific, but you can't really call either of them "pornography" by any conventional standards.

edited 9th Oct '12 9:57:04 PM by JHM

2347 LargoQuagmire10th Oct 2012 10:56:43 AM , Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I've come home and I'm so cold...
Also, generally, Euroshlock movies endeavor to make a point. What that point is gets generally lost in all the fuckery, but there's definitely some attempt to make the subversion mean something.
2348 InsanityPrelude10th Oct 2012 08:36:42 PM , Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Looks like it was resolved to restore practically as soon as it was mentioned. Quick work!

edited 10th Oct '12 8:37:06 PM by InsanityPrelude

Can we restore some of the shock-fic/movie pages somewhere? Maybe the Darth Wiki? I like to use them when bile-fascination kicks in but I want a watered down version. It's kinda the only think keeping me form loosing my sanity on the real thing.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
2350 tdgoodrich111th Oct 2012 08:01:44 PM from Atlanta , Relationship Status: Californicating
R.I.P 2 My Youth
[up]Such as? What are you asking us to do?
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen

Total posts: 2,893
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