Page Restoration Petitions

Regaurdless of how they act I'm not sure if you can call a character that looks like she's like 22 "pedo-pandering" without seriously reaching on the definition of pedophile. Mainly because a pedophille wouldn't be attracted to a twenty-somethings body

I've not even heard of this but from the thread it sounds more like pure weirdness than pedobait.

Both pornographic and pedo-pandering works were originally culled from the wiki for two major reasons: to get Google to give us ad revenue again, and because several of these pages had gradually filled up with lurid to downright creepy content.

edited 2nd Mar '17 9:24:20 PM by Willbyr

The policy itself was decided in the aftermath of an attack by Google trolls, but it's stayed because, in general, it works and the mods don't want the pages in question around. They attract a lot of prurient and plain creepy edits that damage the image of the wiki. Frankly, most of us don't want the headache that comes from allowing pure porn works. (Unofficially, the existence of the 5P also encourages a bit of self-moderation on pages that could be doomed as porn.)

There was also a concern that pure porn doesn't have anything worth troping, but that idea kind of fell to the wayside a while ago.

That's a sound point in theory, but I don't think the P5 are strictly bound to judging from first principles. (That is, it might not genuinely be pedophile-pandering, but it may well have the necessary creepiness nonetheless to be labeled as such anyway.)

@P5: Do we want to reopen the work for examination? Can your livers stand it?

edited 2nd Mar '17 10:02:15 PM by Ramidel

I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.

It sounds more like ephebophilia from what I hear about the thread in terms of how she looks but the fact that she acts mentally like a 12 year old is what is off putting I believe. There's a difference between that kind of character to Yoko Littner (She's a pretty good example of Younger than She Looks that's sexualised). For one Yoko Littner doesn't act like a 10 year old and is pretty mature for it's age and Gurren Lagann is pretty much a PG-13 type show anyway.

This isn't the proper thread to discuss that topic. All the rationales can be found in the Content Policy Discussion thread.

That said, for the record...

The content policy exists because we, as the staff (moderators and administrators of the site), decided that troping excessively prurient works causes more problems than any notional benefit it provides in terms of information content.

• It subjects us to potential issues with our advertisers (this concern is no longer strictly relevant, but we still occasionally get content complaints).
• It damages our reputation with the Internet community at large.
• It makes users who write laudatory examples about such works look like creeps.
• We know that young people visit our site, and we strive for a family-friendly approach to content. Having porn/pedo works set out along with everything else is a minefield.

While Wikipedia and other sites like it can take a documentary tone towards content — its NPOV policy explicitly states that articles should not express an opinion towards their subjects — we are a site consisting of fans. Most articles will adopt a positive tone, and it can generally be taken as a given that the writer of a work article implicitly endorses that work. People viewing the article will therefore believe that the wiki itself endorses the work. This puts us in a very tricky position with regard to highly objectionable works, as troping them inherently creates the impression that we approve of the content, or at least find it interesting enough to share with the world.

You could say, "Well, what if we write the articles to state that these works are BadWrong?" Well, that violates our rule against Complaining. So we're in a bit of a bind regarding presentation. Fundamentally, we're a site of fans writing about works we like. We have no mandate (explicit or implied) to adopt a neutral point of view or include all possible works.

edited 3rd Mar '17 5:45:21 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

The whole fan angle doesn't really work when you consider that some of the works we document here are so legitimately bad that the positions of "fandom" and "hatedom" are flipped around, i.e. it's the hatedom that's the norm and the fandom that is a fringe minority. Just saying.

edited 3rd Mar '17 11:41:21 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Again, not the place to discuss it. We have major problems with those articles, but they aren't relevant to this particular question, being the exception rather than the norm. Anyway, you have to describe the work in order to trope it, which is part of our problem.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

The problem is one of maturity and sensitivity. These sorts of works, as noted, attracted editors with what might be called an exhibitionist streak, which was especially problematic when the content veered into the potentially traumatic. Say what you will about some stranger sexual predilections, but there is a wide gulf between privately appreciating something that might be viewed as extreme and prioritising one's public discussion of it on a PG-13 site over the vocal discomfort of victims of sexual abuse.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

I'd like to file an appeal for the restoration of My Breasts Are Down Here, which appear to have been cut by admin fiat during Fast Eddie's tenure. At the very least, if there is indeed a Zero Context Example problem with the article (as implied by Eddie's "a list of breasts in fiction" comment), it should be put through TRS rather than simply being cut.

For reference, here is the old YKTTW draft (for some reason, it's nuked rather than launched), and here is the last available cached version of the article prior to it being cut.

edited 13th Jun '17 9:03:43 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Personally, I'd be fine with restoring that one, provided it gets a ZCE purge.

Ok lets see. What examples that aren't ZC Es does it have?

Anime: Vivi from One Piece is ok as that's in-story combat tactic, but the rest of anime section not so hot.
Comic books: tank girl maybe, rest ZCE.
Comedy examples in Film seem ok as they highlight the parodying rather than just saying "there's tits" but half the section is still ZCE.
Live action TV: none look good to me.
Tabletop: nil
Videogames: nope
Webcomics: about a joke, ok
Western animation: nah
Real Life: maybe Gaga's.

Soo that's what, five-six left?

edited 13th Jun '17 11:28:27 AM by Adannor

So, the "trope" is that the work draws attention to a female character's cleavage with her choice of attire? I'm going to call it pointless to trope, especially given all the overlap with tropes like Stripperiffic. "Look, bewbs" may be a thing, but it's not a thing that we gain any value by listing examples of.

edited 13th Jun '17 11:53:07 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Yeah the trope just seems like Stripperiffic but more specific.

I was under the impression that the trope was a character using their sexiness as a distraction. Which would make it overlap with Distracted by the Sexy or that other trope which is just like it and always gets confused for it. The other way I saw it used was a character being very obviously seductive, like the Schlub Pub Seduction Deduction.

Ok, can't remember how to spell that one and on a phone right now so I'm not going to look it up.

edited 13th Jun '17 12:09:13 PM by Arha

There's Stripperiffic and then there's "going out of her way to emphasize her boobs", especially if said emphasis is really unusual or eye-catching...Katy Perry's firework/whipped cream tops in her videos is a prime example. I'm not gonna lose sleep if this doesn't come back but I think the concept is salvageable.

edited 13th Jun '17 3:55:59 PM by Willbyr

Also Madonna's Cone Bra or Naked Gun's vegas outfit with the lightup boobs. Outfit designs that deliberately have breast shapes and such to call attention to them.

"Specifically-looking style of outfit" is not particularly tropeable though, there needs to be more to that.

This is the only solidly good example on the page. The rest are just making fun of Male Gaze and qualify barely for non-ZCE on those grounds.

edited 13th Jun '17 9:48:20 PM by Adannor

Why not send it to the TLP and see whether or not it manages to accumulate a sufficient amount of proper examples, maybe even a better definition/description?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

SONIC HIGH SCHOOL is an awful Sonic High School AU fic which is accurately described on the Crack Fic page as "including truckloads of Anatomically Impossible Sex, questionable grammar, really weird and frequent similes, and an extremely outrageous story." I personally consider it to be up there with My Immortal due to just how unintentionally (assuming it wasn't a Troll Fic) funny the author's bizzare writing is. It was nuked years ago because the characters who in this story get into bizarre sex scenes are sometimes as young as 6 years old according to Sonic canon. However, Sonic High School's description does state that all of the characters have been aged up, which the previous people seem to have missed. Admittedly, there is a scene in which a nearly-deaf Mongolian/Bangladeshi lunch lady demands "sex thanking" from Sonic as part of some tradition from her homeland (?) and he complies, so maybe the nuking was deserved. Also, the description's promise of "no graphic description" is broken, though it is likely that the author doesn't know what that constitutes. Additionally, Sonic High School was not written just to be porn, as the sex scenes are (mostly) in service of the plot, although their connection to the plot is often loose. The lunch lady scene might be an exception, as it could be cut out without changing the plot. The author seems to have been 13 when he wrote this story, and the sex is what he seems to have believed constituted "high school drama." However, the descriptions of sex are much more titillating/detailed than in My Immortal, though this may just be a side effect of the author's writing style, as many things are described in unnecessary detail. (Or it could be just that the author's only knowledge of sex is from porn/rumors/health class.) You can keep it banned, I guess, if you think it's too much, but I'm just stating my case. I'd really like to see tropes for Sonic High School, along with WMG/Headscratchers/Fridge etc. because of how insane the story is, and because the work is much more than just weird Sonic smut. However, I understand this is not sufficient to justify adding a story, especially because Sonic High School is nowhere near as notorious as My Inner Life or legolas by laura.

Regardless, I'll at least be able to create a page for its sequel, SONIC THE HEDGEHOG: WORLD WAR 2 DRAGON , as it is devoid of any sexual content.

Edited by jgrif57003 on Dec 17th 2018 at 5:39:22 AM

Er... why, exactly, is Baise Moi redlinked? It's graphic as all hell in every possible way, but it's also a genuine art film that's pretty famous and generally agreed to be at least okay. The directors have both even directly stated it's not intended as a pornographic work, merely an artistic one with very explicit content.

edit: On a second look at the specific P5 guidelines, yeah, this movie should frankly be completely kosher. While the plot directly involves the main characters fucking and murdering a whole lot of people, it's certainly not an Excuse Plot, and the movie contains no pedophilia.

Edited by WickedIcon on Mar 4th 2019 at 11:13:23 AM

Please rewrite that so that it has paragraphs.

I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.

I would be willing to revisit it, personally, but I am but one person. Anyone else?

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

I was looking back through the thread and I honestly wasn’t sure what the rationale was behind removing it in the first place, unless I didn’t go back far enough.

FATAL should have its trope examples restored.

That would be an interesting testbed for my thoughts about bringing back some of the P5-removed pages with strict criteria about their examples.

Edited by Willbyr on Nov 21st 2019 at 3:42:31 AM