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Content Policy Change:

 201 Septimus Heap, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:07:06 PM from Valle di Muggio Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
OK. Let's stop talking about specific pages here. I can see it breaking the thread apart in no time flat.

 202 The One Who Tropes, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:07:20 PM from Leigh, Lancashire, England (Viertes Reich) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
I like this webcomic.
That entire discussion of Troper Tales is off-topic. I feel bad for causing the derailing.

I think No Such Thing As Notability does need a line about porn not being wanted.
Der Führer des Fraudlente Menschen.
[up][up]ok I guess sad

edited 14th Apr '12 3:07:34 PM by Bookyangel2438

Alt account of Angeldog 2437.
 204 Psyga 315, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:07:34 PM from Dungeons & Dragons No Sekai Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Will Smith More
@Marq: Ah... That would make sense. Though this gives more incentive as to go for this purge.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:07:53 PM by Psyga315

"An MMORPG without a logout button? That's a bold decision, man!"
 205 lu 127, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:07:44 PM from the Forest of Thorns Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
It was cut because it was on the Hentai index. Seeing as it's not actually pornographic, we'll examine the content and see if we can bring it back.
小さく揺れた向日葵
 206 Artemis 92, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:08:06 PM from contemplation
Cogito Gratia Cogitan
@Sep: Hindsight does tend to be the clearest sight, doesn't it?
Ponders too much; thinks too little. Currently goes by Knowlessman.
 207 Japanese Teeth, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:08:08 PM from Meinong's jungle Relationship Status: Mu
WONK
Quick question about the nature of the council thing: Are the members going to be made known to the wiki at large, or is it going to be an anonymous thing? I think both options have pros and cons, and I'm curious about how it's going to be handled.
Surfing the forums
Troper Tales was entertaining, but not in the good way. tongue Getting rid of it saved the site's reputation.

Also, what are we going to do about Fetish Porn dressed up in G-ratings (stuff like El Goon Shive and that webcomic about the transformation high school)?

Doctor Where
Considering that we aren't supposed to talk about specific pages, we have no input on who'll be on the council, we can't reverse the policy change, and the methods of the council will be determined by mods, what is an appropriate topic for this discussion?
Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku
 210 Psyga 315, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:11:33 PM from Dungeons & Dragons No Sekai Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Will Smith More
All you need is a troll or hater cherry-picking the worst scene out of a mostly-non-sexual work and claiming it's representative.

Informed decision-making requires actually being informed, not making one-minute skims of one paragraph. It's especially problematic to do this without even looking to see if there are tropers who have read/watched the whole thing. Of course their descriptions of particular scenes be fact-checked against the actual work to determine their reliability as sources. But there is no substitute for being familiar with an entire work and knowing whether it is all about porn and pedo or merely contains a little sex here and there.

With this, I agree. We need some way of knowing that everyone knows what work is being defended and have it in a way where someone can't convince everyone with one sentence and several cheery pickings. Despite how some of those have helped out in some cases.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:12:08 PM by Psyga315

"An MMORPG without a logout button? That's a bold decision, man!"
[up][up]Suggestions of methods for the Council?

Asking questions for clarification so the staff can Joss wild panic?

edited 14th Apr '12 3:11:48 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 212 L Mage, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:12:14 PM from Miss Robichaux's Academy Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Evil Trickster
I feel like there should also be an open discussion before any trope is cut, so the council can get input from the public and to insure there is chance of defenders in case there are none on the council.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:12:47 PM by LMage

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"
[up]I like that idea! smile
Alt account of Angeldog 2437.
 214 Septimus Heap, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:12:51 PM from Valle di Muggio Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
What we define as paedophilia here? I guess it's going to be "pre-teen" vs. teen, and the council making the call if it isn't crysta-clear.

◥▶◀◤
I suppose cutting purely porn for porn sake is somewhat acceptable but there needs to be a line. Some works are very pornographic in nature but have plot lines, character's and stories to them as well.

Not mention examples to keep in-line with the discussion rules even though there is a huge one I'd love to name drop.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:14:33 PM by Vyctorian

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com
 216 L Mage, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:15:08 PM from Miss Robichaux's Academy Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Evil Trickster
@Septimus

I suggest the general rule being that in-universe age of consent and cultural sexual standards be used, and failing that the age of consent and cultural sexual standards of the work's country of origin at the time of it's creation.

This allows for works like Romeo and Juliet that where written at a different time.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:17:35 PM by LMage

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"
 217 Septimus Heap, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:16:33 PM from Valle di Muggio Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
[up]Bad ideas. Ages of consent are purely random numbers. And there are places where it is as high as 21 or as low as 8 with no particular reason.

Troper Tales was hurting us, but only because it was the latest stick that the trolls over at SA and certain youtube channels were using to make some tropers feel embarrassed. Same as they are doing now with sexual content. And the same as they will do with what ever they dream up next. We've paid the danegeld a couple of times already, so they'll keep doing it. And we'll keep cutting because we think it'll stop them. Only it won't.

However, that doesn't matter right now. What matters now is getting some proper terms of reference wrt what is and isn't allowed. At the moment it's too fuzzy, and very much open to misinterpretation and abuse. I'm also concerned we aren't acting to bring the troper community into the discussion and make them aware of what is going on. If there is one thing that we know from bitter experience, its that when you present people with fait accomplis and act to keep things quiet, its that there is a huge backlash that goes on for months and ends up causing more problems. We've just had a wiki talk thread about getting people involved and giving more information for goodness sake.
Aid the Paradox Archaeologists, meditate on the tropes used: Beyond The Star Empire Of The Otters Of Doom
[up][up]Yeah, there are countries where small pre-pubescent girls are purchased by old men who invite all their male relatives to gang-rape her every day for the rest of her life, and it's legal.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:17:39 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 220 Sixthhokage1, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:17:42 PM from Fort Worth, TX Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
@The discussion of possibly moving questionable content to another wiki:

Remember that Wikia is not the only free wiki host. There's Wikkii (which hosts both Farmer and Custom installs of MediaWiki), Wikidot, Wetpaint, etc.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:18:09 PM by Sixthhokage1

◥▶◀◤
Troper Tales isn't the discussion here can we please stop bringing it up.
Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com
 222 lu 127, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:18:38 PM from the Forest of Thorns Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
With Mod Hat On
Troper Tales derail is unnecessary.

Let's go on with this subject.
小さく揺れた向日葵
Yes, seriously please drop TT and specific works.

As for general announcements to the whole wiki, that should at least wait until the council is formed up and has some plan, and is reviewing specific works and tropes.
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 224 L Mage, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:20:24 PM from Miss Robichaux's Academy Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Evil Trickster
Then how about this: so long as the work in question is not a glorification of pedophilia or child abuse, then it is fine. If a work handles the subject realistically and with some degree of respect for the reality of it, then I don't see a reason to cut it.
"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"
 225 Septimus Heap, Sat, 14th Apr '12 3:20:34 PM from Valle di Muggio Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
[up][up]Also, as I mentioned a few pages back, a general announcement will likely only turn the complainers in.

edited 14th Apr '12 3:21:00 PM by SeptimusHeap

Total posts: 2,191
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