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LGBT Rights and Religion:

Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

 15576 chi mangetsu, Sun, 22nd Jun '14 8:00:38 PM from brink of the universe Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
Appeal to Authority absolves you of guilt and let's you pretend you're better than all those Others that aren't exactly like your preferred MMITS says they should be, dontchaknow. Makes it easier than thinking for yourself and owning up to your own failings as a human being.

Hashtag Winkyface
"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
 15577 Logo P, Sat, 28th Jun '14 6:12:26 PM from Soiled City on a Hill Relationship Status: All is for my lord
So, what do you think of this?
 15578 Silasw, Sun, 29th Jun '14 4:42:34 AM from The UNITED Kingdom Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
Pretty good, now I think it's silly to not carry out homosexual acts because you feel the bible speaks against it, but I also think it's silly to not eat pork because the bible says it's wrong.

Now I'd say that the bible doesn't actually speak out against loving gay relationships, but the guy isn't trying to force his beliefs onto anyone else (at least doesn't appear to be) so fair enough on him.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 15579 Pykrete, Sun, 29th Jun '14 9:41:21 AM from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
There's usually a backlash when someone holds their religious beliefs over their sexual impulses. Personally, I see no reason they shouldn't be compatible in this case, and wish that guy didn't feel he had to choose between them. But it's quite possible to live a genuinely happy celibate life. Civilization has long since gotten to the point where one's crotch needn't be the primary focus of life.

 15580 chi mangetsu, Sun, 29th Jun '14 10:17:56 AM from brink of the universe Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
Don't talk about Catholic priest scandals, don't talk about Catholic priest scandals, don't talk about Catholic priest scandals...
"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
 15581 Elfive, Sun, 29th Jun '14 10:19:27 AM from London
Yarr, again.
Well, when you go around saying "I think there's nothing wrong with my orientation, but I'm not going to act on it because I think the creator of the universe has told me not to" it does tend to come across as a little hypocritical.

I mean, either he endorses it or he doesn't.

edited 29th Jun '14 10:19:47 AM by Elfive

 15582 Logo P, Sun, 29th Jun '14 10:34:54 AM from Soiled City on a Hill Relationship Status: All is for my lord
I think he views it as a mental illness, of sorts. Like, it's OK to have violent urges as long as you don't act on them. Flawed reasoning but still a reasoning.

[up][up] That's a generalization. tongue

edited 29th Jun '14 10:35:47 AM by LogoP

 15583 Silasw, Sun, 29th Jun '14 10:45:11 AM from The UNITED Kingdom Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
[up][up] But how's it different from a Muslim or a Jew effectively going "I think there's nothing wrong with eating pork, but I'm not going to because I think the creator of the universe has told me not to", I mean it's silly, but I don't see what's particularly wrong with it.

[up] I don't see where he makes the mental illness comparison, I think you're making a big assumption there, instead he seems to view it as something god put on a "don't do" list for some reason that only god knows, like how Muslim's and Jews view eating pork.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 15584 Keybreak, Sun, 29th Jun '14 10:48:24 AM from amid it all Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ire
Sometimes, I feel like religion is based more on fear than respect.

"Do what I say and you'll go to paradise after you die. Don't do what I say and you will suffer for all eternity."

Because eternity is a lot longer than people think about it. It's every day suffering with a day of suffering after it, and without any mercy of death, because you're already dead. tongue
I would rather fail in my own way than succeed by someone else's.
 15585 Logo P, Sun, 29th Jun '14 11:00:35 AM from Soiled City on a Hill Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Punishment doesn't always equal eternal suffering. In may cases it simply refers to eternal seperation from God. The inability to enter His kingdom.

edited 29th Jun '14 11:01:12 AM by LogoP

 15586 Keybreak, Sun, 29th Jun '14 11:02:14 AM from amid it all Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ire
Which would mean what instead...wandering around in Limbo on Earth watching everybody else live their life?

...couldn't be SO bad.

I would rather fail in my own way than succeed by someone else's.
 15587 chi mangetsu, Sun, 29th Jun '14 11:03:50 AM from brink of the universe Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
[up][up][up] Considering heaven is described as constant bowing, scraping, praising and singing said praises to God, I'm not sure which would actually be worse if either actually existed.

edited 29th Jun '14 11:05:38 AM by chi_mangetsu

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
 15588 Silasw, Sun, 29th Jun '14 11:06:39 AM from The UNITED Kingdom Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
[up]X4, Much American religion does seem to be, the phrase "god fearing" is an odd one to me, why should I fear god? God is about love and compassion, not fear. While in America there seems to be a big focus on the Old Testament 'smite everything I can find' God and him, not the New Testament 'love and forgiveness' Jesus.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 15589 Keybreak, Sun, 29th Jun '14 11:09:20 AM from amid it all Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ire
When I'm pretending that Heaven and Hell really exist, I alternate among Fluffy Cloud Heaven and Fire and Brimstone Hell, Dante's Paradiso and Dante's Inferno, this map and another good map of Hell I have yet to find ;p, and personal Heavens and personal Hells.

@Silasw In the way you're supposed to fear your own father. He loves you, but he's hard on you to make you into a better person.
I would rather fail in my own way than succeed by someone else's.
 15590 Silasw, Sun, 29th Jun '14 11:10:38 AM from The UNITED Kingdom Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
I was never taught to fear either of my parents...

You guys are weird...
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 15591 chi mangetsu, Sun, 29th Jun '14 11:14:54 AM from brink of the universe Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
Parents have gotten progressively less shitty in recent decades, but some are still throwbacks to older, shittier times.
"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
 15592 Loni Jay, Mon, 30th Jun '14 3:55:00 AM from Australia Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
I raised that exact question (Why should I fear God?) in my Catholic youth group once, and the priest said that the saying has suffered from meaning drift and isn't supposed to mean being scared of God, but a feeling more like 'awe'.
Be not afraid...
 15593 chi mangetsu, Mon, 30th Jun '14 7:09:34 AM from brink of the universe Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
You were sold a bill of goods. "Awe" dates back to c.1200 from Scandinavian and Germanic words meaning "fright", "fear", and "terror", as in "awful" which came into use around 100 years later. The term we use today to mean reverential—or did until surf lingo killed any worthwhile meaning beyond "pretty good"—is "awesome", and that didn't come into use until the 1590s.

[down]No, no, you're thinking of Galactus. Big purple guy, sillier hat than the Pope. Jack Kirby era stuff.

edited 30th Jun '14 7:19:35 AM by chi_mangetsu

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
 15594 Rem, Mon, 30th Jun '14 7:13:01 AM Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Re: "Why should I fear God?"

...Because It can eat the planet?

edited 30th Jun '14 7:13:27 AM by Rem

Fire, air, water, earth...legend has it that when these four elements are gathered, they will form the fifth element...boron.
Euo will do!
[up][up]"Awe" and "fear" were often used kind of interchangeably, although "fear" often still had connotations of "trepidation" to it, where "awe"... not so much. "Fear" started to veer more towards "terror" and "horror" than it started with doing during the Elizabethan era. As you can tell from Marlow and Shakespeare.

Fear > awe > wonder being rather closely entwined? Ticking hard when Chaucer was scribbling. And, it still wasn't gone at all by the times King James was endorsing a certain project and The Tempest was the hot, new, not-to-be-missed play. smile

The link is similar if you consider the Diets (Early-Middle Dutch) and Fries (Frisian) equivalents which were doing the same — which do need keeping in mind, thanks to the closeness they had with Middle English.

Saying that the drift is being oversold has a point. But, there has been drift. "Fear", "panic" and "terror"? Not original bed-mates — but, they shack up these days. <shrugs>

edited 30th Jun '14 9:32:34 AM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
 15596 Elfive, Mon, 30th Jun '14 9:22:13 AM from London
Yarr, again.
It bears remembering that terror is also the root of terrific.

edited 30th Jun '14 9:22:23 AM by Elfive

 15597 chi mangetsu, Mon, 30th Jun '14 9:38:41 AM from brink of the universe Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
[up] Indeed. See The Fair Folk.

edited 30th Jun '14 9:40:36 AM by chi_mangetsu

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
I think the problem is that "respect", "awe", "reverence" and whatnot have always had an undercurrent of fear in them. You pay reverence to a Warlord/King/Deity because otherwise they'll kill you. You should be in awe of God, because he is more powerful. It is the same as with mortal rulers.

 15599 Pykrete, Mon, 30th Jun '14 12:30:15 PM from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
Don't talk about Catholic priest scandals, don't talk about Catholic priest scandals, don't talk about Catholic priest scandals...

Which by all indication had a lower per capita rate of incidence than the surrounding population. The surprise wasn't that it happened at some point, or even its relative (lack of) frequency — it was the irony and the sprawling coverup tracing as high in the ranks as it did.

Fear > awe > wonder being rather closely entwined? Ticking hard when Chaucer was scribbling. And, it still wasn't gone at all by the times King James was endorsing a certain project and The Tempest was the hot, new, not-to-be-missed play.

Ugh. Renaissance philosophers killed forests talking about that. My German Lit class harped on it so bloody often I can't write the word "sublime" anymore without cringing.

Nevermind

edited 8th Aug '14 1:53:23 PM by blauregen

All I know is, my gut says maybe.
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