TV Tropes Org

Forums

On-Topic Conversations:
LGBT Rights and Religion
search forum titles
google site search
Total posts: [15,599]  1 ... 448 449 450 451 452
453
454 455 456 457 458 ... 624

LGBT Rights and Religion:

Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

 11301 joeyjojo, Sat, 27th Apr '13 2:40:35 PM from The Magic Land Of Oz Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Storm the bastille!
For many reasons, but particularly because of statements like this, I couldn't find the will to oppose gay marriage. If two people are that much in love, who am I to stop them?

Hold that thought.smile
Mòn Hovercraft êst pleïn deš Änguillës

NCC - 1701
A Christian?

Har har. tongue
It was an honor
NCC - 1701
Previously on Star Trek The Church Generation

But it's not our fault. Those gays just don't want to surrender. - Would you surrender, Tentacles? (beat) Would I?

The entire Pridefleet is gathering to go to Mutara. And once they're there, we're going to ANNIHILATE their entire fleet, down to the last ship. None will escape. The gay agenda will END. Once and for all time.

The Voyager will take them to Rura Penthe where they'll be sold to the Klingons as slave labor. Except for Captain Kay and Commander Shima. They'll be dropped off on Earth to stand trial and be executed.

The Enterprise will serve the Church and Christforce faithfully, General.
After General Fred Phelps's transmission ends, Colonel Silasw and his crew remain silent in the ready room, still contemplating that the gays will be lured into a trap and slaughtered. Everyone is clearly uncomfortable with this.

Lt. DG: You know, Colonel Achaemenid is right. We can't lure people into a trap under the pretense of peace.

Lt. Pagad: They're got to be a way to talk to them.

Major Tentacles: And what about Kay and Shima? As captured combatants, they still have rights.

Silasw: (interrupting) Enough. The General has given his orders. They'll be carried out. Major, prep the prisoners to be transferred. Lieutenant plot a course to rendezvous with the Voyager. Maxima, have security take Kay and Shima to solitary confinement where they'll remain till we drop them off on Earth.

Maxima: No.

Silence. Silasw glares at his second officer hard.

Silasw: Excuse me, Major??

Maxima: I said no. These orders are bullshit, and I won't carry them out.

Achaemenid: Lad, mutiny is a very serious charge you know.

Maxima: And what we've been ordered to do is a crime against humanity. We can't do this. We're not going to do this.

Sgt. Major Euodiachloris: Major, we'll be executed as traitors.

Sgt. Scriblerian: Sir, what's wrong with you? I mean, yeah, killing the gays is pretty drastic, but really, this is war. I mean you're the one who massacred a bunch of non-combatants to get promoted.

Maxima: No I fucking did NOT!!! (Everyone in the ready room looks at Maxima as if he's insane. Completely undeterred, he continues) I can't explain this any better than I'm about to, but this is all wrong. There's been some alteration to the timeline. We're not supposed to be at war with the gays. I mean, shit, a lot of YOU ARE gay or bi and you still serve in Christfleet. (Baffled expressions) And General Phelps isn't our leader. He leads a terrorist faction called the Westboro Alliance. We fought him. We defeated him!

Nobody says anything while they turn over Maxima's crazy story.

Tentacles: Uh....Maxima, I think you should come down to sickbay for....

Maxima: No goddamnit! I'm not insane! THIS is insane! We're taking orders from a lunatic and we're about to kill a bunch of innocent people who are coming to talk peace! (He points at Silasw) The very people you DIED to save!!

As soon as the words leave his mouth, Maxima is horrified to realize what he just said. Everyone else was already baffled by his rantings, but now they all lean forward listening with rapt attention.

Achaemenid: Say what?

Euo: How?

Elfive: You're fucking insane.

Silasw: (says nothing and simply locks eyes with Maxima) Explain. (he says, calmly)

Maxima: (initially too afraid to speak, but finally forces out the story) Phelps and his thugs attacked an LGBTQ base in our sector. I gave the order to intervene.

Captain Wildcard: You gave the order??

Maxima: In that timeline, I'm the commander of the Enterprise. (to Silasw) You were my first officer. (A pause as that settles in) We fought them and thought the Judgment damaged both our ships, we managed to stop them. But then Phelps, cowardly chickenshit that he is, set his ship to blow up. (Maxima starts to hesitate as the memory plays in his mind) You.....you manually realigned our mains so we could get warp speed.

Scriblerian: Bullshit! Nobody can withstand the radiation.

DG: The computer would need a command officer to override the lockouts.

Major Jhimmibob: I'd never allow that in my engine room!

Silasw: Shut up. Maxima?

Maxima: You aligned it manually. And because you did, both the Enterprise and the Defiant escaped. You saved over 300 lives and stopped a monster. (choking up) You were a hero.

Silasw: (very quietly) Ship....out of danger?

Maxima: (eyes widening) What? What'd you just say??

Silasw: (catching himself) I said nothing.

Maxima: You remember it? Don't you?? You saved the ship. You saved us all. You know I'm right. This is all wrong. We're Christians! We HELP people; we don't terrorize them! And you fucking know it!

Achaemenid: Maxima, clearly you're suffering some sort of delusion...

Maxima: I'M NOT!!! This is not how it's supposed to be.

Lt. Rmctagg: Let's say this....alternate timeline...that you alone can remember is true. You really expect us to simply defy the General and help our enemies???

Maxima: They're only our enemies because we're terrorizing them.

Achaemenid: Major Maxima you are relieved of duty. Report to sickbay for a full psychiatric evaluation. That's an order.

Maxima: Colonel, please....

Achaemenid: Captain Wildcard, please escort the major to sickbay.

The room falls silent as Wildcard looks confused for a moment, then get out of his seat and walks toward Maxima, hand suspiciously close to his phaser.

Maxima: Goddamn it, shuffling me off to sickbay won't change the truth. This is wrong and we can't do it.

Silasw: Captain, I believe you have your orders.

Reluctantly, Wildcard places a hand on Maxima's shoulder. Maxima is stunned by this, but finally gets up out his chair and heads out the room with Wildcard behind him. Before he walks out, he says one last thing....

Maxima: Colonel, I promise you. If we do this; if we continue this unjust war; if he massacre the gays' fleet; God will NEVER forgive us. Do whatever you want with me, but don't let this happen.

Wildcard ushers Maxima out the room as the doors close behind them.

edited 3rd May '13 8:06:24 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
 11304 Achaemenid, Fri, 3rd May '13 8:45:46 AM from the dear green place. Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Ein kleines Blümelein
[awesome][tup][up]

Lad, mutiny is a very serious charge you know.

Lad?

I am fucking Scotty. Me gusta.
 11305 deathpigeon, Fri, 3rd May '13 9:14:43 AM from Bread, It Is Bread that the Revolution Needs! Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Kaspar the Friendly Spook
I find a distinct lack of me in that disturbing.
My Blog.

ACAB.

"The great are great only because we are on our knees. Let us rise." - Max Stirner
 11306 kay4today, Fri, 3rd May '13 9:15:22 AM from Austria
Princess Ymir's knightess
[up][up][up] I don't remember if I'm evil or not...

edited 3rd May '13 9:15:29 AM by kay4today

 11307 Rhyme Beat, Fri, 3rd May '13 9:21:59 AM from Eastern Standard Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Who?
I'm just sitting here being the thread's equivalent of a Red Shirt.
Euo will do!
[up][up]Alternate timelines... just roll with the alt. wink
"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
NCC - 1701
@Achaemenid - What's a Star Trek parody without the Badass Scot?

@dp - I promised you'd be in the next episode. I didn't forget

@Kay - You're not evil. However, as Noirceur was killed in a raid I led in this timeline, you are a little less than pleased with me.

@Rhyme - You as a redshirt? Hm......I can work with that. (I think I can write a pretty awesome redshirt)

@Euo - Exactly.

edited 3rd May '13 10:02:25 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
 11310 Silasw, Fri, 3rd May '13 10:11:06 AM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
I thought we were going with an alternate reality...

If this is an alternate time-line then I'd really like to know where the point of divergence is. Since it would have to be pretty early for us to have all gone evil.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
NCC - 1701
Dammit Silasw must you call out my Plot Holes?
It was an honor
Princess Ymir's knightess
[up][up][up] This is stoopid. u suck

 11313 Silasw, Fri, 3rd May '13 10:22:37 AM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
It's entirely possible for Starship (in story) to think that he's in a alternate time-line, while really it's an alternate reality. After all, he did pass his transdimentional physics module? As for how an alternate reality would lead to Silasw receiving feedback, simple, the conciousness of the dead Silasw from our Starship's universe was also transferred over, and is attempting to break though and contact this relativity's Silasw.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
NCC - 1701
[up] Holy shit. That.......makes sense.
It was an honor
 11315 Silasw, Fri, 3rd May '13 10:56:41 AM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
The best bit, I literally made that us as I was typing. I have plans for all sorts of sceneries, but normally when people say "you've obviously thought a lot about this" I actually started formatting the plan about the same time I started the sentence.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 11316 rmctagg09, Fri, 3rd May '13 11:06:48 AM from Brooklyn, NY Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
The Indy Ploy is the best ploy.
Hugging a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

It's typed rmctagg09.
NCC - 1701
This is only related to the topic in the very vaguest terms, but.....

While I respect Elizabeth Smart's courage; I continue to cringe at how conservative beliefs get strawmanned and then presented as fact.

I'm a man with multiple non-married sexual encounters; and I grew up on abstinence-only sex ed. I was NEVER taught that a rape victim was worthless.

There are several reasons why rape as viewed as a black mark against the victim, but this continued desperation to lay it all at the feet of religion and/or conservative values is grating.
It was an honor
 11318 kay4today, Tue, 7th May '13 7:30:51 AM from Austria
Princess Ymir's knightess
You were never taught rape victims were worthless, but as we've already heard several times from people like Morgi that whole Christian love and tolerance thing isn't the case everywhere.

Furthermore, nowhere did she say that "religion teaches only bad things" or anything, she was just recalling a personal experience, pointed out how some "Christians" can pollute children's minds and rightfully said out how screwed up that was.

edited 7th May '13 7:31:29 AM by kay4today

 11319 Morgikit, Tue, 7th May '13 7:31:59 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
While I respect Elizabeth Smart's courage; I continue to cringe at how conservative beliefs get strawmanned and then presented as fact.

Is it really a strawman if there are people who actually believe that? Smart says that's what she got out of what she was taught. I buy it, because conservative Christians don't have a reputation for tact when it comes to sex.

I'm a man with multiple non-married sexual encounters; and I grew up on abstinence-only sex ed. I was NEVER taught that a rape victim was worthless.

Unless you and Ms. Smart took the same class, that just says you were never taught that. Doesn't prove she's a liar.
Nya

Tropers Riff Movies (7PM EST)
 11320 Silasw, Tue, 7th May '13 7:43:01 AM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
I don't believe the article is claiming that abstinence only education teaches people that rape victims are worthless, it's claiming that it contributes to rape victims thinking of themselves as worthless. No one (mainstream) teaches the idea that rape victims are worthless, but they do teach things that make rape victims think of themselves as worthless. If you teach someone that sex is horrible and that to have premarital sex makes you dirty and tainted they will naturally apply that lesson to all sex, consensual or not.

Plus, you're a new Yorker by birth aren't you? I doubt the kind of abstinence only sex education taught in New York is the same as the kind taught in the Deep South.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 11321 Morgikit, Tue, 7th May '13 8:42:12 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
Cardinal Dolan: "No, I meant to wash your hands BEFORE you come in! *calls police*"

[down]...I can't think of words to convey the utter wrongness of this. Sorry you went through that, DG.

edited 7th May '13 9:02:24 AM by Morgikit

Nya

Tropers Riff Movies (7PM EST)
 11322 Drunk Girlfriend, Tue, 7th May '13 8:42:43 AM from Castle Geekhaven
Also, there's a huge gulf between telling teens "Hey, don't have sex until you want to have kids" and telling them "Giving your husband your virginity is the best gift you can give". Smart's problem is with the latter type.

And no, it's not a strawman, because I was taught the latter type, along with a hefty helping of "premarital sex is adultery against God", "you can't get married unless you're a virgin", and "The first man you sleep with is your husband in God's eyes".

That plus all the fucked up verses in the Bible about rape is the entire reason why I got engaged to my rapist, because the shame of getting raped was far less significant than the shame that would have accompanied telling my future husband that I wasn't a virgin.

This sort of shit happens, and dismissing it as a "strawman" is really not cool.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 11323 Ninety, Tue, 7th May '13 8:55:25 AM from Land of Quakes and Hills Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
Holy shit, I'm so sorry to hear that.
math792d: "If there was a tagline to the Aesir beyond 'war never changes, ' it would be 'alcohol was involved.'"
 11324 Blue Ninja 0, Tue, 7th May '13 9:00:01 AM from The Middle of Nowhere Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Slowly dying on the inside
[up]*3: While I agree with the tone of the article, do read the footnote that says Dolan wasn't present, and probably did not directly have anything to do with the police being called. That said, I hope (but doubt) that the Archbishop will realize just how much that kind of ostracism hurts a church that's already battered and bleeding from two decades of sex scandals.

[edit] DG, I have no words for how utterly fucked up that is. I'm glad you got away from there.

edited 7th May '13 9:01:06 AM by BlueNinja0

Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to cast their vote. - Ambassador Kosh
Euo will do!
[up][up][up]I got that kind of lesson in South Africa. <_< All about the wrapping paper and being a neatly tied present with a ribbon and a bow... and do you want to give your husband/ wife a dirty package that's been opened already? Do you want to risk the bow not looking pretty? You're bad if you loosen the ribbon, etc., etc. tongue

The pressure is horrible. -_- And, this in a country with high rape stats. tongue Somehow girls and boys are supposed to fend off the multiple attackers (some literal, some figurative: most of whom they know and can put the emotional screws on them, either way) and present lovely gift-wrapped virginities to each other. By some miracle. tongue

And, this somehow also being consistent with the beliefs that 1) sex with a virgin cures venereal diseases, 2) high-strung girls need to be "broken in" before they have husbands (after all, they're high-strung, so unlikely to be virgins: and, you're therefore doing the guy a favour) and 3) "a raped woman makes a thorny wife" (subtext: they're only useful as mistresses, bits-on-the-side or sex-workers). tongue Contradictory, or what? <_<

There is a fourth belief: raping a gay/ lesbian? Isn't rape. After all, they're not under normal rules, so it's OK, isn't it? tongue Oh... and raping a same-sex individual as yourself? Doesn't make you gay: you're teaching them something. Yup: that's what you're doing. <_< Even if you do it regularly and pick them because you're attracted. It's a glorious way to stay in the closest. tongue

edited 7th May '13 9:12:51 AM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
Total posts: 15,599
 1 ... 448 449 450 451 452
453
454 455 456 457 458 ... 624


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy