LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

I'm an agnostic atheist. I was raised in a secular household. I actually don't know my parent's religious beliefs. I know my paternal grandparents are lutheran and I'm pretty sure my maternal grandmother is eastern orthodox as she lives and has always lived in Serbia, though she might not be (my maternal grandfather is dead :c).

Joey, hahaha!

Just that sometimes outward impressions can be misleading. My boyfriend has a slender frame and isn't that tall, so he has been teased and harassed for not fitting in with the redneck line backer aesthetic. So he started studying martial arts and lifting weights.

People still try to tease him, but it doesn't last long.

We need to get homosexual acceptance as well as break traditional gender roles if we want to make lives easier on everyone.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

I've been raised Church of England, I'm baptised and while I haven't attend church in a while I still do on occasion (normally Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday). However my vicar was always of a liberal bend, even for the Church of England. She's a divorce whom I believe has secretly blessed gay ceremonies (which I think is against church doctrine, and may even be illegal), believes that the Bible is mainly a collection of stories (very important and morally guiding stories, but stories non the lees) and had us bring our sheep into church one Easter.

Even with all that I'm still unsure of the existence of God, but I believe that if there is a god (that is worthy of worship and following) then he will not truly care about if I go to church every weekend. He will care if I help those in need, if I try and repent for my mistakes and learn from them, if I love my neighbour and especially if put the well being of others in front of the well being of myself. The only kind of God whom I would want to follow is one whom cares about those things, and not whom I have consensual sex with.

I've also gotten angry at God and shouted at him from a hillside, but seeing as that was because someone I care about very dearly was having bad things happen to her (it would be a her wouldn't it? ) I think I get a pass.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

Applause.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

I'd have issue with pretty much any non-deist god, unless said god was less than omnipotent, especially if there is some enemy of similar power level to that god, and one of my requirements to not having an issue with a god is not requiring or benefitting worship. Another is no eternal punishments. Basically, I would have a problem with almost every god of the major religions.

Regardless, I wouldn't worship any god, not even one I have no problem with or actually kind of like.

Yeah, that's an issue I've had to. The acts of god's morality and goodness could provide a reason to follow him, but worship? I'm not so sure. I can think of good reasons to follow a God, but to worship them? I've yet to be given such a reason.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

I don't think there is any reason I would accept to worship any god. I'm not sure I'd even follow any god, really. I might align myself with that god, but I would never put the god above me anymore than I'd put anyone else above me.

See that's the thing, I have no issue with putting others above me, provided they have proven that they are above me. If someone is better at chess then me then they are above me in that area, if someone is able to drink more then me then they are a better drinker then me, if someone (who could be a God) is better at being moral then me then I would put them above me. I would follow their example because I have determined that they are better then me at something I want to be better at.

I agree on the worship thing, but I refuse to rule anything out. Maybe there is some brilliant argument that would make me go "yeah actually worshipping sounds like the right thing", but we'll only find out if someone can provide such an argument.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

Oh, I accept people being better at me at stuff. I don't accept people having power over me. That's what I meant by putting above me.

Oh, nor do I. I just find it highly unlikely that such an argument exists because of my feelings on authority.

For a good laugh: how same sex marriage affects heterosexual marriage.

Basically, "We won't be special anymore!!! Wah!!!!"

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Same deal I've heard before "They get to promote TEH GAY AGENDA and we have to go along with it," (read: treat them like humans).

I love how obviously homophobic it is too and how it even resorts to "Marriage is to have children".

edited 23rd Apr '13 5:10:37 PM by Wildcard

METAL GEAR!?

It all boils down to, "We won't be able to treat them like they're worth less than us anymore!!!"

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.

OH HOW AWFUL! How can we live in a world where judges marry gay people and Mc Donalds willing serves them? I ask you how that could possibly work?

I guess they realize they can't win the debate with the rules of their religion and instead just try to make businesses not being able to discriminate sound like a bad thing.

edited 23rd Apr '13 5:25:35 PM by Wildcard

METAL GEAR!?

I asked the last person who insisted the purpose of marriage was to have children if that meant heterosexual couples who could have children but didn't were abominations.

They said they were not sinning because they were married, but their church should be encouraging them to fulfill their Christian duty and have children. (Notice more than one kid)

I then asked about those who were born barren and couldn't have children. This yahoo said that these women (note only women are infertile) need to remain unmarried and devote themselves to the service of the community, probably as teachers and nurses.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Yes well I wouldn't ask Yahoo! answers for advice.

hashtagsarestupid

Since I've started following this thread: Christian (Methodist) turned atheist-leaning agnostic.

I mostly lurk, but I might as well join in:

My father's a Protestant, my mother's a Catholic turned atheist, and I'm a Christian. As for where I'm from, I was technically born in the Bronx, and I've lived in Manhattan, but I consider myself a Brooklynite because I've lived there the longest.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

Reared Southern Baptist the first five years of my life; reared Pentecostal the remaining thirteen years of my minority. Considered atheism as a young adult, but it didn't take. Spent the last few decades hovering around the Catholic Church like the proverbial moth to flame; still important reservations to address, though.

"She was the kind of dame they write similes about." —Pterodactyl Jones

Raised (non-evangelical) Episcopalian by my parents, became a practicing Wiccan in high school *

, abandoned religion after 30 and am now a committed atheist.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

It's beyond redundant at this point to mention my religious leanings since we're all well and sick of them by now I'm sure.

But I want to respond to something Silasw wrote; that any God he'd believe in cares far more about how he treats others than how many times he goes to Church or who he happens to sleep with.

I get that logic. And to a great degree it's true; 8 of the ten commandments are about how to treat others. But...a theory I've developed is that the "silly incidentals that no God truly gives a damn about" are the things that are necessary in order to accomplish those greater things.

Much like the pinkie toe, or the fluid in one's ears, these are seemingly random, insignificant things that if not for their existence would make a thing like being able to stand up straight and walk in a straight line a great deal more difficult.

Like I said though, this is my theory.

It was an honor

And do you have any evidence to support this hypothesis on church attendance? Cause I know people who don't go to church, and, yet, still do all these good things, which is evidence against church attendance being necessary for all these good things, unless that's not what you meant.

Well, besides the fact that like most of my theories, that one is a work in progress, this is a case where that's not the sole determining factor.

Going back to, like, page 50 of this thread; it's kinda like how people say "Well the fact that two gay parents can raise a good and healthy child is proof that 'Biblical' families aren't necessarily the best."

Well.....my belief is that the traditional, one man - one woman model is the best. However.....more important than that is that the child have a parent or parents that are dedicated to the child's well-being, over their own. So a gay parent who has that is by default a far better parent than a hetero couple who don't possess that level of dedication.

It was an honor

I'd disagree on the necessity bit, simply because if anything is deemed necessary for salvation then all it takes is for you to screw up that one thing and you're done. Now I can easily believe that regularly attending Church is meant to be a part of the Complete Christian Breakfast, because we all stray from the path and the idea would be that the church is organised in such a way that it is the best thing out there for keeping you on the path.

So if you're attending church you will be surrounded others who are trying to do the same thing as you, this will thus help you to reflect on yourself (as the others will be reflecting on themselves) so as to recognise your own mistakes. the sermons and such will provide you with guidance on what you might be doing that hurts others, the church will provide you with an emotional support group that will act as a family in times of trouble (a good family to). The simple fact that you're enjoying yourself in church means you will be a more joyful person and thus better able to be kind and thoughtful to others.

I can easily see how attending a church that meets those criteria would be very helpful to being a moral person whom helps others and is aware of their own failings. But that's where we hit the problem, the idea of attending church being good for you relies on the church being a good church, which (if we go by my above criteria) most aren't.

edited 23rd Apr '13 7:58:46 PM by Silasw

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

...So you don't have any evidence? Why then should anyone accept this hypothesis? Since there is evidence against, but not for, why do you believe this hypothesis?

Again, do you have any evidence that the traditional family structure is better? Because, as you note, there is evidence that gay parents raise their children about as well as straight parents. Since there is evidence against, but not for, why do you believe this hypothesis?

Do we really need to argue about this? I don't agree with Starship either, but we all know what this is going to accomplish. There's this never-ending cycle "Starship says something controversial and everybody demands that he justify it", even though he supports gay rights.

We know which side he's on. Are the finer points worth getting divided over?

edited 23rd Apr '13 8:07:55 PM by Robotnik