TV Tropes Org

Forums

On-Topic Conversations:
LGBT Rights and Religion
search forum titles
google site search
Total posts: [15,600]  1 ... 339 340 341 342 343
344
345 346 347 348 349 ... 624

LGBT Rights and Religion:

Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

 8576 Achaemenid, Wed, 6th Feb '13 3:05:33 PM from Mitakihara Town, Copenhagen Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
I think Winston Churchill skewered tradition best of all when someone argued that better working conditions for Royal Navy sailors was "against the traditions" of the Navy: "What traditions? Rum, sodomy, and the lash?"
Die Russen seind gefallen in Preußen ein;

Auf, laßt uns sie zeigen, daß wir brave Landeskinder sein!
 8577 drunkscriblerian, Wed, 6th Feb '13 3:19:09 PM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe traditionally Britain used to hang homosexuals. And traditionally Romans fed Christians to lions. Maybe "because it's tradition" isn't the best excuse to do things.

It's a truism that people only hold up tradition when it benefits them to do so. Besides, most of the Appeal To Tradition people use to justify keeping the LGBT community down involves a generous helping of misunderstood history.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
 8578 Blue Ninja 0, Wed, 6th Feb '13 4:03:50 PM from The Middle of Nowhere Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Plotting my Escape
Except for in the DDR - Achaemenid
DDR?
The mark of a place joining the civilised section of the Internet is when it starts banning people being assholes in their space-Silas W
 8579 Wildcard, Wed, 6th Feb '13 6:24:48 PM from Somewhere in the galaxy
Go! Fly! Win!
Has anything changed with the scout decision?

Edit: Argh! Looks like they delayed the decision: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/07/us/boy-scouts-postpone-decision-on-gays.html

I didn't want this too happen and I don't care for the Appeal To Tradition argument. Tradition being so frequently used to excuse horrible policies. I'm concerned that it will give the church groups more time to announce pulling support and the scouts having to consider this from a financial point of view which I think will make them keep the ban. New decision in May.

Hopefully the gay marriage decision does not get delayed in the UK.

Gotta love the "protect the children" sign. "Oh noes they might learn that people of a different orientation exist!"

edited 6th Feb '13 6:59:20 PM by Wildcard

Whatever tomorrow brings I'll be there. With open arms and open eyes.
Princess Ymir's knightess
Be reasonable, Wild. They might catch the gay.

 8581 Vericrat, Wed, 6th Feb '13 11:07:31 PM from .0000001 seconds ago
Like this, but brown.
[up]Hey, cut the sarcasm. After all, Senator Kelly caught his version of the gay. For all we know, the gays are getting ready to make a machine comparable to Magneto's.

edited 6th Feb '13 11:08:12 PM by Vericrat

THIS IS A PSA: As of 1/1/13 there is a 1-year moratorium on No Pants Thursdays. Instead, we shall celebrate No Pants 2013.
 8582 deathpigeon, Wed, 6th Feb '13 11:09:39 PM from Bread, It Is Bread that the Revolution Needs! Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Kaspar the Friendly Spook
For all we know, the gays are getting ready to make a machine comparable to Magneto's.

HOW DID YOU LEARN MY PLANS???

...

...

...I mean, noooo... That would be crazy.

edited 6th Feb '13 11:09:54 PM by deathpigeon

My Blog.

ACAB.

"The great are great only because we are on our knees. Let us rise." - Max Stirner
 8583 Pykrete, Thu, 7th Feb '13 1:03:36 AM from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
The funny part is that the actor who played Magneto is gay, and used the whole mutant = LGBT vibe of the movies to identify with his character. So...yeah... tongue

I want Kat's glasses!
I hope in the future Reality will really have moved on to other issues. Of course, poor us "conservatives of tomorrow" will all be up in arms against AI marriage and otherkin brain transplant...
They Called Me Mad!! I decided to show them all; but when I looked on my works, oh mighty, I despaired: for it made me realize they were right.
 8585 Wildcard, Thu, 7th Feb '13 5:13:19 AM from Somewhere in the galaxy
Go! Fly! Win!
Imagine when we get to the issue of Outer Space Alien marriage.evil grin

Anyone got any news about Homosexuality and Religion?

edited 7th Feb '13 5:16:34 AM by Wildcard

Whatever tomorrow brings I'll be there. With open arms and open eyes.
 8586 Achaemenid, Thu, 7th Feb '13 5:57:30 AM from Mitakihara Town, Copenhagen Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
[up]

Ask, and you shall surely recieve:

Vatican speaks in defense of gay couples.

A high-ranking Vatican official on Monday (Feb. 4) voiced support for giving unmarried couples some kind of legal protection even as he reaffirmed the Catholic Church’s opposition to same-sex marriage.

Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, head of the Pontifical Council for the Family, also said the church should do more to protect gays and lesbians from discrimination in countries where homosexuality is illegal.

In his first Vatican press conference since his appointment as the Catholic Church’s “minister” for family, Paglia conceded that there are several kinds of “cohabitation forms that do not constitute a family, ” and that their number is growing.

Paglia suggested that nations could find “private law solutions” to help individuals who live in non-matrimonial relations, “to prevent injustice and make their life easier.”

Nevertheless, Paglia was adamant in reaffirming society’s duty to preserve the unique value of marriage.

“The church must defend the truth, and the truth is that a marriage is only between a man and a woman, ” he said. Other kinds of “affections” cannot be the foundation for a “public structure” such as marriage.

“We cannot surrender to a sick egalitarianism that abolishes every difference, ” he warned, and run the risk of society becoming a new “Babel.”
Die Russen seind gefallen in Preußen ein;

Auf, laßt uns sie zeigen, daß wir brave Landeskinder sein!
 8587 Dr Tentacles, Thu, 7th Feb '13 6:05:47 AM from your bed. Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
[up] I was going to say "It's better than a kick in the balls"

Then I read

“The church must defend the truth, and the truth is that a marriage is only between a man and a woman, ” he said. Other kinds of “affections” cannot be the foundation for a “public structure” such as marriage.

“We cannot surrender to a sick egalitarianism that abolishes every difference, ” he warned, and run the risk of society becoming a new “Babel.”

Does he even know what "public structure" means? Or is he vomiting verbal diarrhea between his daily altar-boy diddling? (Yes, I'm going to keep going on about that until the church acknowledges that they screwed up, and actually punish the people who've done that. Thus far, they've still be in cover-up, hide the damage mode about child sexual abuse)

Secondly, sick egalitarianism are two works that should never be used together.

Third, I'm pretty sure that's not what the story of Babel was about. I though knowing these things was supposed to be your job.

Lastly..."affections" in quotes like that seriously makes me want to hit you.

edited 7th Feb '13 6:10:30 AM by DrTentacles

And who are you, the proud lord said, that I must bow so low? Only a cat of a different coat, that's all the truth I know...
 8588 Morgikit, Thu, 7th Feb '13 6:05:52 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
[up][up][up]Some of the homophobes probably think we are space aliens.

[up][up]So basically, "keep them second class citizens, but be nicer about it"?

edited 7th Feb '13 6:06:42 AM by Morgikit

 8589 Wildcard, Thu, 7th Feb '13 6:07:45 AM from Somewhere in the galaxy
Go! Fly! Win!
"The truth is marriage is between man and woman" Not by historical standards. It has not always been that way, they have not always had control of this public institution and just because they have control of it now does not make it the truth.
Whatever tomorrow brings I'll be there. With open arms and open eyes.
 8590 Jhimmibhob, Thu, 7th Feb '13 7:00:14 AM from Arm's reach of the julep machine Relationship Status: My own grandpa
[up]Actually, they don't have control of it—which is why they're using their speech rights to publicly voice their stances on the issue, and to reach voters or public officials amenable to persuasion towards said stances.

[up][up]It's unlikely that the Vatican considers gay marriage ontologically possible, so saying that they want to make anyone "second-class citizens" would probably strike them as less than coherent ... or as tantamount to complaining about the "unfairness" of gravity and thermodynamics. The archbishop's statement is a simple, unsurprising call for charity even in the face of grave confusion (by his lights), combined with an understandable refusal to let confusion have the final word.
"She was the kind of dame they write similes about." —Pterodactyl Jones
 8591 Wildcard, Thu, 7th Feb '13 7:05:37 AM from Somewhere in the galaxy
Go! Fly! Win!
Jhim marriage between gay people is Ontologically Possible and I don't know why you keep insisting it isn't. Or why it matters considering we have done changed plenty of legal definitions before with little to no bad results. In fact I think it is far more important to change the law to protect it's citizens than to carry on using a limited legal definition just because of a fear this might lead to non-specific "bad things".

edited 7th Feb '13 7:10:20 AM by Wildcard

Whatever tomorrow brings I'll be there. With open arms and open eyes.
 8592 Polarstern, Thu, 7th Feb '13 7:07:41 AM from United States
Countries don't have free speech. They make statements that they can be held accountable.

 8593 Vericrat, Thu, 7th Feb '13 7:20:38 AM from .0000001 seconds ago
Like this, but brown.
[up]People have free speech rights. And since the main level of organization of people in the world are countries, I don't think people surrender their free speech rights in the international community just because they speak through their countries.

Now, anyone can be "held accountable" for their speech if you mean that others don't have to associate with you if they don't like your opinions. And that's not just at a country level; if your views are offensive to a Republican, they don't have to associate with you.
THIS IS A PSA: As of 1/1/13 there is a 1-year moratorium on No Pants Thursdays. Instead, we shall celebrate No Pants 2013.
NCC - 1701
[up] Exactly.
It was an honor
Princess Ymir's knightess
If you make any statements that make you look like a Nazi here in Austria, you'll be in trouble.

 8596 Jhimmibhob, Thu, 7th Feb '13 7:46:14 AM from Arm's reach of the julep machine Relationship Status: My own grandpa
Jhim marriage between gay people is Ontologically Possible and I don't know why you keep insisting it isn't. Or why it matters considering we have done changed plenty of legal definitions before with little to no bad results. In fact I think it is far more important to change the law to protect it's citizens than to carry on using a limited legal definition just because of a fear this might lead to non-specific "bad things".
In this instance, Wildcard, I'm not trying to re-open that argument; I'm just referring to the archbishop's probable views, and to the oft-implied teachings of the Catholic Church.

And of course, Polar is right that "speech rights" is an iffy concept here. I'll rephrase it as "custom-honored speech prerogatives of sovereign states and their representatives in the international arena." Not as snappy-sounding, but what can you do?
"She was the kind of dame they write similes about." —Pterodactyl Jones
 8597 Polarstern, Thu, 7th Feb '13 7:53:20 AM from United States
Countries have different accountablility than people.

People can be sued for liable or slander. But countries can be sanctioned, called out in international forums, and held to economic pressures.

Anyone can say whatever they want. You just have to be willing to accept the consequences of those words.

 8598 Morgikit, Thu, 7th Feb '13 7:57:22 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
I find it amusing that a spokesman for an organization that talks about talking snakes, planet wide floods, water turning to wine and the dead rising from the grave considers same-sex marriage "impossible".

Anyone can say whatever they want. You just have to be willing to accept the consequences of those words.

But that's socialist thought control.

edited 7th Feb '13 8:00:28 AM by Morgikit

 8599 Vericrat, Thu, 7th Feb '13 7:58:25 AM from .0000001 seconds ago
Like this, but brown.
[up][up][up]I strongly disagree with this, but I acknowledge it exists.

[up]If you mean countries don't have an enforceable right to free speech, I agree - if the international community decides to wipe you off the planet because you said something they don't like, I suppose they probably can. That doesn't mean that the right that we talk about isn't still important.

I don't think we should be sanctioning people (or groups of people) for their opinions. Instead, we should sanction them for their actions.
THIS IS A PSA: As of 1/1/13 there is a 1-year moratorium on No Pants Thursdays. Instead, we shall celebrate No Pants 2013.
 8600 Polarstern, Thu, 7th Feb '13 8:04:48 AM from United States
It all depends on the words.

Total posts: 15,600
 1 ... 339 340 341 342 343
344
345 346 347 348 349 ... 624


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy