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LGBT Rights and Religion:

Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

 8551 Silasw, Tue, 5th Feb '13 12:36:24 PM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
Also the Lords Spiritual will have to consider the fact that if they swing the vote against then it may be the last thing they ever do. The outrage of serving Bishops blocking Gay Marriage would be massive.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 8552 Lawyerdude, Wed, 6th Feb '13 7:50:31 AM from my secret moon base
Citizen
And the Catholic Church is comparing gay marriage to Hitler. For bonus distastefulness points, they're doing it in Germany.

Takes one to know one, I guess, considering that the Church arrested and detained peaceful pro-gay rights protestors just before Christmas.

I think that proves beyond any reasonable doubt what the Catholic Church truly thinks of gay people.

edited 6th Feb '13 7:50:41 AM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
 8553 Silasw, Wed, 6th Feb '13 7:55:39 AM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
There was doubt?
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
NCC - 1701
Does anyone have a link to the actual interview with Archbishop Mueller from Die Welt?? It's a bit difficult to accurately guage his comments minus the context and it seems none of the gay lobby blogs/news outlets is actually linking to the article.

If he's comparing people questioning the Church to Nazis, I'd say he's a few fries short of a happy meal. If he's saying that some who criticize the Church have an agenda and seem rabidly hostile to any teaching that they don't agree with, I'm hard-pressed to see what's unreasonable about that, especially since I've seen similar sentiment on this very thread.
It was an honor
 8555 Lawyerdude, Wed, 6th Feb '13 8:40:42 AM from my secret moon base
Citizen
Here's an excerpt from a speech quoted on another site: Link

“The campaigns which are specifically targeted at discrediting the Catholic Church in the U.S. and Europe have led to clerics in some sectors being publicly insulted in a vulgar way, ” the former bishop of Regensburg said. “An artificially instigated anger is building, occasionally echoing the sentiment of the pogroms against Jews in Europe, ” he added. Attacks against the Church are launched on many blogs and on television. The instruments adopted in these attacks “recall the struggles of totalitarian ideologies against Christianity.”

This guy is the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, i.e. he's Rome's Supreme Inquisitor. And to say that people's struggle for equal rights is somehow comparable to Nazism is just downright insane. And Catholicism is a totalitarian ideology. They want their leaders and clerics to be immune from any sort of criticism, and want to punish those who dare to dissent.
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
 8556 Achaemenid, Wed, 6th Feb '13 8:46:57 AM from the dear green place. Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Ein kleines Blümelein
[up][up]

The original interview, in the German newspaper Die Welt, is here. It is German, a language I don't speak, though Google translate can help, a tiny bit. The relevant passage is right at the end, and it does roughly like this (some German tropers to translate would be much appreciated)

  • Die Welt: Cardinal Francis George, who is seriously ill and upset about Obama's policy towards the Church, said that he would die in bed, his successor in prison, and his successor might be threatened with murder - do you share his view?
  • Archbishop Mueller: A targeted campaign in Europe and in North America to discredit the church now means that clergy are very criticized in some public areas. The resulting mood is seen in many blogs. Even TV is ridden with attacks on the Catholic Church, and use the same arguments as totalitarian ideologies which the church struggled against. This artificially generated anger already occasionally reminds me of a pogrom.

edited 6th Feb '13 8:47:12 AM by Achaemenid

 8557 Elfive, Wed, 6th Feb '13 8:54:39 AM from London
yarr
Haha, it's funny because he thinks the catholic church need someone else to discredit them.
 8558 Shadow Kaiser, Wed, 6th Feb '13 8:54:39 AM from just around the corner
^ "Artificially generated anger"?? This goes to show how out of touch the Archbishop is. Excuse me but most of the anger I have seen directed at the church has been because of how they make statements on some issues and then seem shocked that others disagree.
This is not a signature!
 8559 Hilarity Ensues, Wed, 6th Feb '13 9:14:30 AM from Standing between Sho'Nuff and total supremacy.
Wow. He just had to compare criticism of the Church over gay marriage to the persecution of the Jews in Europe.

I'd say that's actually a little worse than just calling people you disagree with Nazis/fascists. That's really stupid too, but at least it's more of a generic, hyperbolic insult. This, however, is trivializing the suffering of an entire people.

NCC - 1701
Hm, so it seems the original assessment was correct. He's a few fries short. Maybe a nugget or two as well.
It was an honor
 8561 shimaspawn, Wed, 6th Feb '13 10:56:08 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Yeah, he's a bit loco. The whole Catholic Church upper echelon seems to be on the topic of homosexuality. There's a lot of lies and hyperbole coming from them at the moment.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 8562 L Mage, Wed, 6th Feb '13 11:05:35 AM from Miss Robichaux's Academy Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Evil Trickster
I just no longer understand the RCC's reasoning. How do the expect to maintain power while stay completely out of touch with the remainder of the world, and only accepting or acting on their view of things? It's like the expect the rest of the world to fall in lien with their paradigm simply because it is their paradigm and then acted shocked when they are kindly informed that are wrong.

It's evident that the leadership is out of touch with the masses, but you would think their would be SOME effort to rectify that.
"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"
 8563 Morgikit, Wed, 6th Feb '13 11:18:48 AM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
[up]I don't know how it is in Catholic churches, but the ones I went to prided themselves on being "in the world, but not of the world". Or "don't conform to the standards of society". Instead conform to the standards of the church. Don't follow that crowd, follow this slightly smaller one.
Nya

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 8564 pagad, Wed, 6th Feb '13 11:36:39 AM from perfidious Albion Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Sneering Imperialist
Whenever the Catholic Church - or indeed any religious group - attempts to pull ridiculous Godwins regarding gay rights, I quietly seethe. Comparing the one minority group who were refused categorisation as Nazi victims and re-arrested by the Western Allies after the war to the very people who fucking butchered them in concentration camps in the first place is just...I'd like to ask them to read a fucking history book before they say something so astonishingly offensive.

edited 6th Feb '13 11:37:16 AM by pagad

 8565 Achaemenid, Wed, 6th Feb '13 11:40:32 AM from the dear green place. Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Ein kleines Blümelein
[up]

Except for in the DDR, which did not renew the old Nazi "anti-sodomy laws". Weird, huh?
 8566 Meklar, Wed, 6th Feb '13 11:41:46 AM from Milky Way Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
How do the expect to maintain power while stay completely out of touch with the remainder of the world, and only accepting or acting on their view of things?
Well, it already worked for about 15 centuries.

NCC - 1701
[up] That was pretty good. [lol]
It was an honor
 8568 Achaemenid, Wed, 6th Feb '13 11:59:05 AM from the dear green place. Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Ein kleines Blümelein
One of the Tory MPs in the UK gay marriage debate criticized the merciless prism of equality.

Fuckin' merciless prisms man.

Gay rights advocates responded with this.

edited 6th Feb '13 11:59:24 AM by Achaemenid

NCC - 1701
Star Trek Into The Merciless Prism Of Equality Darkness. In theaters May 15, 2013.

Okay, I mean, I get what he was saying but, that was just too easy. As the Twitter retorts demonstrate.

edited 6th Feb '13 12:24:16 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
 8570 Morgikit, Wed, 6th Feb '13 12:56:26 PM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
Merciless prism...sounds like Ramiel.
Nya

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 8571 pagad, Wed, 6th Feb '13 12:57:35 PM from perfidious Albion Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Sneering Imperialist
"We have to get away from the idea that every single thing in life can be forced through the merciless prism of equality, " he said.

He added: "We should be concerned with equality, but not at the expense of every other consideration, not at the expense of tradition."

Leigh also said that marriage was "profoundly pro-woman" as it was "generally men who have the propensity to want to wander off into other relationships" leaving them "holding the baby".

Typical Tory Appeal To Tradition rubbish.

To which another MP responded: "Speak for yourself."

[lol][awesome]

edited 6th Feb '13 12:57:48 PM by pagad

 8572 Lawyerdude, Wed, 6th Feb '13 1:11:34 PM from my secret moon base
Citizen
"Merciless Prisms of Equality" sounds like an avant-garde concept album for the band Magic Pants. It followed on the heels of their more retro album "Binders full of Women". But nothing has really matched their early work since their lead Theremin player Cornelius Spackleback quit and started his own experimental group, "Uri Gellar and the Spoonbenders".

edited 6th Feb '13 1:16:44 PM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
 8573 Vericrat, Wed, 6th Feb '13 1:50:22 PM from .0000001 seconds ago
Like this, but brown.
"We should be concerned with equality, but not at the expense of every other consideration, not at the expense of tradition."

I'm sure there are some groups in Britain who were traditionally legally discriminated against (in America I'd say blacks, women) that aren't today who are probably very happy that this argument didn't hold water then...
THIS IS A PSA: As of 1/1/13 there is a 1-year moratorium on No Pants Thursdays. Instead, we shall celebrate No Pants 2013.
 8574 Morgikit, Wed, 6th Feb '13 1:54:30 PM from Lavender Town Relationship Status: In season
Queen of Foxes
Magic Pants doesn't sound as good as country sensation The Tea Party. Though their latest album, "A Thousand Years of Darkness" didn't have quite the success they hoped for.

@Tradition: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe traditionally Britain used to hang homosexuals. And traditionally Romans fed Christians to lions. Maybe "because it's tradition" isn't the best excuse to do things.

edited 6th Feb '13 1:59:22 PM by Morgikit

Nya

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NCC - 1701
[up] Made of Forum [awesome].

edited 6th Feb '13 2:08:52 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
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