LGBT Rights and Religion:

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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

5051 BlueNinja013th Nov 2012 07:53:33 PM from Hiding in the corner , Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Sailing the big blue sea
@dRoy - there are Mormons nearly anywhere. I know personally there is a fair contingent of Mormons in Japan, and most of them are not American servicemembers. I know the Mormon church sends missionaries to just about anywhere they don't expect to be killed. And despite all the money that the LDS organization has put into anti-gay stuff* most of the Mormons I know are about as cool towards homosexuals as they are towards alcoholics.
Tropers are amongst the most civil, intelligent and toughtful people I've had the pleasure of talking to online. - Gutstheberserker
NCC - 1701
Ninja, how's it been.
It was an honor
5053 Morgikit14th Nov 2012 01:41:49 PM from    Alabama    , Relationship Status: In season
Zorua Girl
"Morgi's thing is political activism, furriness, and being fudging adorable." - Enkufka

https://cytu.be/r/Morgis_Den
5054 Euodiachloris14th Nov 2012 01:59:09 PM from England (Oop North) , Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Euo will do!
[up]And, this is why rabid, Evangelical missionaries should be shot on sight. Cook-pot optional, dependant on what family tradition happens to be (rogue kraals did, in fact, occasionally practice cannibalism: for various ritualised uses... and also when famine struck). tongue

edited 14th Nov '12 1:59:38 PM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
5055 EarlOfSandvich14th Nov 2012 02:57:43 PM from the Palouse , Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
The booziest!
[up] Not funny.

But seriously, this is extremely disappointing to see that such thing is passing there. It's going to turn churches into informants, and that's never a good thing.
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NCC - 1701
This is depressing.
It was an honor
5057 EarlOfSandvich14th Nov 2012 03:22:35 PM from the Palouse , Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
The booziest!
But yes, it does reflect a sobering reality about African society. Even in South Africa, with its liberal constitution and a provision for LGBT rights (although there are questions of actual implementation although government forbids discrimination), many of the people down there are rather conservative and religious, and it's not uncommon for LGBT people to be harassed, and there are even some instances of rape (particularly towards lesbians). Even if the Uganda bill doesn't pass, it's easier to change ideas than it is society anyhow.

As for whether to cut aid, I'd still do it regardless, because there are several good points as to why foreign aid doesn't really help. You have to research issues at hand rather than throw money at a problem. Just look at the Dergue and how funds from Band Aid to Ethiopia went...

edited 14th Nov '12 3:41:54 PM by EarlOfSandvich

Geography enthusiast, nerd, gamer, all-around decent guy.

Just feelin' like a casual chat? My PM box is ALWAYS open!
5058 LMage14th Nov 2012 03:48:35 PM from Miss Robichaux's Academy , Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Evil Trickster
[up]

I would like to point out that a lot of their strong religious conservatism stems from Christian missions in those areas.
"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"
5059 Euodiachloris14th Nov 2012 03:50:56 PM from England (Oop North) , Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Euo will do!
[up][up]I did warn you what Uganda was like, Starship. tongue It's got the views most of Southern Africa has, but... rather distilled for a number of historical reasons. You can also find the wonderful myth that having sex with a virgin will cure your venereal diseases alive and well there, too. Along with all kinds of muti that never works against AIDS. <sighs>

[up]Down there? <blinks> Hmmmm... OK. Hard for me to think of Southern Africa that way, but... whatever. [lol] I'd kind of agree with a lot of what you said. However throwing money in the right places can have an effect, if it's backed up with some decent logistical planning (UNICEF is a case in point, as is the fight against smallpox: polio and TB battles can also show how this is done). In Uganda's case, though... a lot of overseas money has gone into the wrong places. tongue Namely the Evangelical movements and their projects. <sighs> It's... not helped. To put it mildly. tongue

That, and there's always corruption rerouting even the best-laid plans into somebody else's pocket lining. Forever and always; the backhander is king. tongue

edited 14th Nov '12 3:52:47 PM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
5060 Morgikit14th Nov 2012 03:54:48 PM from    Alabama    , Relationship Status: In season
Zorua Girl
Maybe they should ask their god to help them. I sure wouldn't want to corrupt them with my godless sodomite money.
"Morgi's thing is political activism, furriness, and being fudging adorable." - Enkufka

https://cytu.be/r/Morgis_Den
5061 Euodiachloris14th Nov 2012 03:55:58 PM from England (Oop North) , Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Euo will do!
Eh?
"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
[up][up]Calm down.
5063 Euodiachloris14th Nov 2012 04:03:27 PM from England (Oop North) , Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Euo will do!
[up][up][up]OK — Sooooo... I take it that the poverty and desperate situation for most of the population of the country being one of the major factors behind the upswing of Evangelical Church attendance and the proliferation of scape-goating that has led to this pass... has totally flown over your head, Morgi? Or the fact that many people in First World countries have profited hugely from plugging the Christian Right agenda there?

Great: blame a whole load of people who are already in a bad way... why don't you? tongue When, you know... properly funded aid programs might just help with things like, I don't know... education, for starters. tongue

Oh... and FYI: try being an albino there, too. And, survive to over 17. tongue And, you think gays have it bad... tongue

edited 14th Nov '12 4:04:43 PM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
NCC - 1701
No, Morg and L Mage are right.

Christians have had a hand in this.....abomination. Gays will die because what "certain" missionaries have done. Their blood is on our hands. And one day, all of us Christians will have to answer to our Creator for why this happened.

May God have mercy on us all.

edited 14th Nov '12 4:09:15 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
[up][up]Aren't albinoes killed for their organs there? Or am I thinking of somewhere else?

edited 14th Nov '12 4:07:19 PM by GlassPistol

5066 Euodiachloris14th Nov 2012 04:09:56 PM from England (Oop North) , Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Euo will do!
[up]Uganda is one of those nations, yes. <sighs> It's not healthy being an albino throughout Sub-Saharan Africa... but some places are worse than others. tongue

At least... gays aren't expressly killed to become somebody else's tonic to a better life. Well, most of the time. sad

Oh... and muti deaths? Are truly horrible deaths. The more pain the victim feels in the dying/ harvesting is supposed to make the medicine stronger. So, you can imagine how bad it can get. And, some are harvested for weeks before death to maximise profits. Yup: truly pretty.

edited 14th Nov '12 4:10:57 PM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
5067 Boredman14th Nov 2012 04:10:01 PM from TEKSIZ, MERKA
hnnnng
[up][up][up]Resorting to self-hate is not going to solve anything. Don't blame the whole group for what a small number did.

edited 14th Nov '12 4:10:12 PM by Boredman

NCC - 1701
Bored, I'm not trying to hate us. It's just that....it's one thing to make a mistake. It's another when people die because of those mistakes.

I mean, don't you ever wonder what God is going to say to us?
It was an honor
5069 Morgikit14th Nov 2012 04:14:01 PM from    Alabama    , Relationship Status: In season
Zorua Girl
And, you think gays have it bad...

If people are trying to kill them over there, they fucking do!

At least... gays aren't expressly killed to become somebody else's tonic to a better life. Well, most of the time.

What is this, the Oppressed Minority Olympics?

I mean, forgive me for being upset when people are being murdered.

edited 14th Nov '12 4:17:27 PM by Morgikit

"Morgi's thing is political activism, furriness, and being fudging adorable." - Enkufka

https://cytu.be/r/Morgis_Den
5070 Euodiachloris14th Nov 2012 04:15:54 PM from England (Oop North) , Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Euo will do!
[up]Adulteresses don't get it any easier, either. Nor kids who look funny/ are possessed. It's part of a fully rounded package of hate-crimes, mate.
"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
5071 Boredman14th Nov 2012 04:18:10 PM from TEKSIZ, MERKA
hnnnng
[up][up][up]You're acting like you're the one who made that mistake, though. You're not. You are not accountable for something someone else did just because they claim to follow the same religion as you. Especially if they're a murderer on another continent.

[up][up]It's perfectly fine to be upset but condescendingly insulting their religion does nothing but foster more hatred.

edited 14th Nov '12 4:18:56 PM by Boredman

NCC - 1701
[up][up][up] It's not the Oppressed Minority Olympics. It's the "Shit, we still have a fuck ton of work to do" Olympics.

[up] Well, there's that. The fact still remains, we can't let these......brutes....steal our faith and pervert it to these ends. We just can't permit it.

edited 14th Nov '12 4:21:02 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
5073 Euodiachloris14th Nov 2012 04:23:20 PM from England (Oop North) , Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Euo will do!
[up]Bingo. And, the first order of business that's closest to my heart? Stopping overseas aid that has an explicit religious intent and screening the rest for any implicit strings. Most Christian charities and NGOs actually out to help the people on the ground (like Christian Aid†) will work with such a restriction, just to get the job done. The ones fishing for customers to fleece as part of the "help"? Ooooh, I'd love to be able to tell them to go jump with an international breach of law...

It won't stop the home-grown (and overseas-trained) nutters willing to sell their flock out... but it's a start.

†Well, mostly: it has slipped up from time to time.

edited 14th Nov '12 4:25:40 PM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
NCC - 1701
[up] I second the shit out of that measure. The Bible actually says we're to show up and help those who need help, not show up and try to peddle our holy book.
It was an honor
5075 Morgikit14th Nov 2012 04:39:15 PM from    Alabama    , Relationship Status: In season
Zorua Girl
If I were to donate, it would have to be to an organization that I was absolutely sure wasn't connected to these fundies. I don't want to end up helping the people responsible for all this.
"Morgi's thing is political activism, furriness, and being fudging adorable." - Enkufka

https://cytu.be/r/Morgis_Den

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