edited 28th Jun '12 4:24:35 AM by JET73L
With Mod Hat OnCalling crowner in favor of cutting all Headscratchers pages for tropes.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
TerradorablyfyingIs there anything else that needs to happen before cutting them? I'm not sure about disposing of all of them the normal way, since that would clog up the cutlist, but sometimes it does get dozens of the same type of thing at once so I guess it's okay. If we want to preserve any with over 10 inbounds (highly unlikely though that is), they can be made redirects to the main trope page, or possibly the Analysis tab if there is one.
Let the wine of friendship never run dry.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13087344150A43140100&page=1#22 The post linked above gives a good reason why we can't just have people discuss this in the forums, and posts above it preemptively agree with my reasoning of why this stuff can't be discussed in the Discussion namespace (because Discussion is generally for discussing the pages, not the subjects, except when the page and subject crosses over). If I'm wrong, I think it would be good for efficiency and tranquility to make it more clear that, for trope pages, Discussion covers the trope as well as the page.
I couldn't find Analysis in that, but it may be because Analysis was made after (if not in response to) that discussion. Again, I'm under the impression that Analysis is meant to be more of a place to propose and discuss interpretations rather than request explanations (which itself is the purpose of Headscratchers for works, so why not tropes? That's not rhetorical, I really want to know why Headscratchers by a different name for Tropes is such a bad thing to have, when Just Bugs Me by a different name was considered a cross-namespace improvement), but that's my understanding from seeing the pages in use, and it could just be that every single person whose entry I've seen was completely missing the point. If that's the case, then not only should an informative banner be put up in Analysis telling people how to use it, but logistically (not, in my opinion, ethically) every such use of Analysis should be wiped to more easily allow the intended, Headscratchers-esque use of the namespace.
One man mosh pitLooking at some of these, I noticed that many of the trope head-scratchers are actually leftovers from IJBM, long before the change to Headscratchers. I wouldn't bother picking through the pages and salvaging anything.
Liberate Me Ex Infernis
For the record, after trope headscratchers are cut, what's the new appropriate place to have a discussion organized by question, as seen in Headscratchers.Super Deformed and Headscratchers.Half Dressed Cartoon Animal? I imagine that after a consensus has formed around an answer, it'd be moved to Analysis, but I'm not sure we want to have Thread Mode in Analysis while forming the consensus. I thought Headscratchers was supposed to keep CITMP out of document-mode namespaces.
ThatawayIf the question is about how the trope functions or its applicability, then it would go on the Discussion page or in the Trope Talk forum. If it's about how the trope came to be and its role in media, society, etc., then it's a subject for Analysis.
So... are we free to start cutlisting these pages?
@JET 73 L: I'm going to be honest; waiting until now to say this, whatever your actual intention, feels a lot like an attempt to circumvent the crowner.
I had been (mis?)using HS and WMG for the Fridge Logic implications of a given trope, just as Required Secondary Powers covers such implications of a given character's extraordinary abilities. For example, Super Deformity requires Super Neck Muscles, Bat Stretchy Clothes, and Bat Hair Cleaning Tools. Septimus Heap proposed in #21 to ask questions in Trope Talk and summarize answers to Analysis. I've also seen Writer's Block used for this if someone is trying to flesh out the use of a given trope in one's own work. So if HS (and possibly WMG) pages for tropes are to be cut, whatever is already answered needs to be salvaged for Analysis first, and there needs to be a clear explanation on the namespaces' respective home pages (Headscratchers.Home Page and WMG.Programme Note): "These pages are for specific works. If you have a question about the trope itself, or about works in general that use this trope, ask questions in Trope Talk and summarize answers to the trope's Analysis page."
edited 5th Jul '12 12:03:35 PM by DamianYerrick
Another Wizard BoyThe "clear explanation" can also go on Headscratchers.Tropes.
Another Wizard BoyOK, I have started in cutlisting headscratchers subpages and moving useful content over to Analysis. I'll also check for unindexed analysis subpages when I have time.
I just did two: Analysis.Mermaid Problem and Analysis.Half Dressed Cartoon Animal. Am I on the right track?
We are watching you scumSo what happened to this? Still seeing trope pages with Headscratchers? Like Fan Myopia.
ThatawayThe crowner is overwhelmingly in favor. I'd say let's start the cutting.
If it's possible, instead of the basic cut page, I'd like it if we could turn them into something along the lines of "Tropes don't get Headscratchers pages. If you have questions, use the discussion tab or create a thread in Trope Talk." Or would that be too difficult?
Another Wizard BoyThe Headscratchers.Tropes page will become this, as was said earlier in this thread. A tech-level solution isn't worth the effort.
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