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 1 ccoa, Fri, 6th Apr '12 7:35:53 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Defintion of trope at present: Any two people, virgins or not, decide to have sex before (or during) the end of the world.

You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You? is a dialog title, and is actively misleading. On the page itself, you can find multiple examples that are using it either for the dialog, only for virgins, or, most commonly, for any life and death situation (rather than the end of the world). For example:

Going down to the end of live-action tv:

  • Any life or death situation: 19
  • Virgins only: 2
  • Dialog rather than situation: 9
  • Correct: 10
  • Zero Context: 3

This is clearly showing misuse on the page itself. 77% misuse, to be exact.

Additionally, there is similar trope Pre-Climax Climax, which is about the hero and his love interest having sex before a life and death situation.

I see a few possible solutions here.

  • We would broaden You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You? to be about having sex before life and death situations, and make Pre-Climax Climax a subtrope.
  • We could split off the "solicits sex because they think they are about to die" variant, since that does not always lead to sex (currently the examples of this are listed as "subversions")
  • We could merge the two tropes into one trope about wanting/having sex before life and death situations.
  • We can keep this about end of the world sex, possibly splitting off the supertrope about any life and death situation sex, and just rename.

Any way we go, that misleading title has to go.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 2 lebrel, Fri, 6th Apr '12 8:31:07 AM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Currently the difference between the two tropes is totally non-obvious, but You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You? describes itself as a subtrope of Pre-Climax Climax. The major difference I can see is that You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You? specifies an end-of-the-world situation, which I don't think is enough of a difference.

I would say Pre-Climax Climax should be about sex before imminent death generally, and make You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You? a subtrope about virgins trying to lose their virginity (or people trying to take the virgin's virginity) before imminent death, whether or not they succeed. And lose the dialog title.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 3 ccoa, Fri, 6th Apr '12 8:54:42 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Actually, I changed it to subtrope, before rethinking and bringing it here. It used to describe the difference as Pre-Climax Climax for being the trope for non-virgins, directly contradicting the line above it saying that it wasn't just for virgins.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 4 lebrel, Fri, 6th Apr '12 9:21:53 AM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Huh. The earliest version on Archive.org of You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You? has both the "this trope does not only apply to characters who are virgins" and the "For those who weren't versions but still do it anyway, see Pre-Climax Climax." (sic) line.

The Pre-Climax Climax YKTTW archive doesn't say anything about You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You? but the earliest version on Archive.org references You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You? as a Stock Phrase.

I'd note that the earliest archived version of You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You?, which looks fairly mature as a page, is a few days younger than the Pre-Climax Climax YKTTW, suggesting that Pre-Climax Climax was essentially a duplicate trope.

edited 6th Apr '12 9:22:11 AM by lebrel

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
Whatever we do with the defintion, a new name would be very much in order.

Huh. The earliest version on Archive.org of You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You? has both the "this trope does not only apply to characters who are virgins" and the "For those who weren't versions but still do it anyway, see Pre-Climax Climax." (sic) line.

I'd note that the earliest archived version of You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You?, which looks fairly mature as a page, is a few days younger than the Pre-Climax Climax YKTTW, suggesting that Pre-Climax Climax was essentially a duplicate trope.

That sounds like someone not reading the description before adding their interpretation of the difference.

How much overlap in examples is there?

 7 ccoa, Fri, 6th Apr '12 12:23:39 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Looks like the following examples are duplicated on both pages: Shaman King, 11eyes, Mirai Nikki, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Supernatural, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights 2, and Final Fantasy VII.

edited 6th Apr '12 12:23:51 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
I have only ever seen this used as "virgin tries to have sex when they think they're about to die, " which is coincidentally exactly what the title sounds like. Maybe both people are virgins, maybe its the non-virgin's idea, whatever. Tightening up the definition and cleaning up the difference between this and Pre-Climax Climax seems like the simplest solution.
 9 ccoa, Wed, 25th Apr '12 6:11:38 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
What do we do with the examples where both characters aren't virgins?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 11 ccoa, Wed, 25th Apr '12 8:08:23 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Pre-Climax Climax is currently restricted to the hero and their love interest. Not any random character.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 12 lebrel, Wed, 25th Apr '12 8:12:56 AM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Broaden Pre-Climax Climax, then? Not all of the existing examples are about hero/heroine couples, anyway (and some should be on Death by Sex).
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 13 ccoa, Mon, 14th May '12 10:49:28 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Let me see if I've got the options straight:

And, for the little wiki gods' sakes, rename it.

Did I miss anything? Are we ready for a crowner?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 14 Septimus Heap, Mon, 14th May '12 11:23:38 AM from Valencia, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
[up]Make the crowner. Also, "rename" should be an option "Regardless of what happens, rename You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You?"

 15 ccoa, Mon, 14th May '12 11:45:24 AM from the Sleeping Giant
With Mod Hat On
Crowner Tab A in Thread Slot B.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 16 ccoa, Mon, 4th Jun '12 8:14:38 AM from the Sleeping Giant
With Mod Hat On
Calling crowner:

edited 4th Jun '12 8:14:44 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 17 ccoa, Mon, 4th Jun '12 8:15:00 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Any name suggestions for You Don't Want to Die a Virgin, Do You??
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 18 King Zeal, Mon, 4th Jun '12 8:26:19 AM from Well Above You
Tali'Shepard Vas Normandy-Rannoch
Virgins Do It Before Climax

Virgins Climax Before Climax

edited 4th Jun '12 8:26:38 AM by KingZeal

Per-fec-tion: -n- an exemplification of supreme excellence; an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence (see also: King Zeal)
 19 ccoa, Wed, 18th Jul '12 5:38:48 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Alternative titles crowner up. Please add more suggestions, this could really use some.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Bump to get some more opinions and votes in here.

 21 ccoa, Fri, 27th Jul '12 10:47:40 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Needs more votes...
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Doesnt Want To Die A Virgin would be a lot easier to work into sentences than Must Not Die a Virgin.

"The world is exploding and Joe Doesnt Want To Die A Virgin, so he..."

 23 lu 127, Sun, 16th Sep '12 9:42:11 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Must Not Die a Virgin rings better to me.
何も恐れる事わ無い
World's Toughest Milkman
"The world is exploding, and Joe decides he Must Not Die a Virgin."

I generally think that use in sentences should be a secondary consideration; the main use of trope names is on trope lists. This one can readily be adapted for your sentences, as above, and seems like a better name overall.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 25 d Roy, Sat, 29th Sep '12 9:47:13 PM from New York Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
Blurrggghh.
Doesn't Want to Die a Virgin sounds better to me. It gives me more of a "Well, since we are screwed, let's screw."

Alternative Titles: You Dont Want To Die A Virgin Do You
18th Jul '12 5:37:08 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
At issue:
Total posts: 42
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