Unclear Description (page action crowner 3/21/14): Quirky Bard get usage counts
Deadlock Clock: 10th Dec 2012 11:59:00 PM

Total posts: [123]
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101 Willbyr21st Mar 2014 09:44:23 PM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
[up] It's hooked.
102 theAdeptrogue23rd Mar 2014 08:02:31 AM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
iRidescence
Just for clarification, the first two options aren't mutually exclusive, right?
103 Spark924th Mar 2014 12:40:05 PM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
The problem with the trope name "Spoony Bard" (which is the reason why we removed it in the first place) is that it's based on a meme that most people don't remember, and as a result it got misused for "any bard in fiction". "Spoony" simply doesn't mean "the butt of a joke" as the current crowner suggests.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
104 ShanghaiSlave24th Mar 2014 02:27:51 PM from YKTTW , Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
[up] I don't remember where it was said but I'm pretty sure we don't use the word's meaning if it is more popularly used for something else here. for example "Bus" is not a literal vehicle, but the offscreen bus where characters who vanish are put into. and thus we cannot have any tropes with "Bus" in the title unless it's a reference to Put on a Bus.

EDIT: turns out we can, though those non-trope-bus ones are pretty obviously different save for Missed the Bus which unsurprisingly has few wicks.

"spoony" in this context is a silly insult. KYM claims
"The phrase is used to poke fun at Bard classes in RP Gs and MMORP Gs, due to the fact that Edward was the worst character in terms of power or stats in FF IV, and is used as an insult to Bard players. It is also used on other famous people named Edward. It is also used to make fun of real bards or musicians, such as Shakespeare"

in other words, it is about making fun of bards in general. and I believe we must have it by virtue of Grandfather Clause, if nothing else.

edited 24th Mar '14 2:36:18 PM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
105 Spark91st Apr 2014 11:54:52 AM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
No. The difference is that "put on a bus" is a metaphor, and from this metaphor it's clear what the trope means; whereas "spoony bard" is a meme (and a 23-year-old outdated one, at that) and from this meme it's absolutely not clear how this is different from "any bard in fiction". Predictably, as a result Put on a Bus works fine, and the former trope Spoony Bard got misused for "list of minstrels in fiction".

And no, you don't get to claim grandfather clause to recreate something that was removed a long time ago. That's the opposite of what grandfather clause means.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
106 Spark91st Apr 2014 11:57:25 AM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Bottom line: you are welcome to make a trope that "bards are the butt of jokes", but (1) don't name it after a long-outdated meme, and (2) just take it to YKTTW, that's what it's for.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
107 Larkmarn1st Apr 2014 01:50:51 PM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Yeah, my issue with Spoony Bard is that, no matter what the definition is, it's an entirely meaningless phrase.
108 Spark91st Apr 2014 06:41:53 PM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Actually, the options on this crowner don't make a whole lot of sense, and I think we should reconsider and close the crowner.

Respectively, these options are (1) broaden the trope to not just bards, but the trope page already states it's not limited to bards, so this does nothing; (2) create a new trope, which can be done in YKTTW any time, so that option does nothing either; (3) cut this trope, which nobody in this thread has given a good reason for; and (4) "bury" a page that doesn't currently exist.

Three options do effectively nothing, the fourth is for cutting a popular page with no reason given. This crowner doesn't help the discussion any.

Special trousers. Very heroic.
109 ShanghaiSlave2nd Apr 2014 02:55:41 PM from YKTTW , Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
[up]
  • Not broaden, rewrite and rename. the trope has nothing to do about bards in the first place, and this is the core problem. the existing examples also have far too many references to "Spoony Bard".
  • It's part of the first action, so yeah, it does do something.
  • The reason being part of the 1st, we keep good examples and put it on the new, then we ax this Quirky Bard thing.
  • last option basically means "make new trope and don't bother with Spoony Bard at all.
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
110 ShanghaiSlave17th Apr 2014 09:37:11 AM from YKTTW , Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
bump.
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
111 ShanghaiSlave22nd Apr 2014 07:36:54 PM from YKTTW , Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
bump. seems that there are more in favor of Spoony Bard's return as a "bards are butt of jokes" trope.
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
112 ShanghaiSlave30th Apr 2014 05:58:42 AM from YKTTW , Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
bump again. what should be done now?
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
113 ShanghaiSlave4th May 2014 07:08:17 AM from YKTTW , Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
nine votes on reviving Spoony Bard. five votes on making the Useless Useful Character (Quirky Bard sans bard references and stupid jokes.) trope.

action?
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
114 Fighteer6th May 2014 10:13:53 AM from the Time Vortex , Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Spoony Bard doesn't make sense as a trope name; it's meaningful only to someone who's played Final Fantasy IV. While I agree with the split on principle, both tropes need better names.
115 ShanghaiSlave11th May 2014 08:15:03 AM from YKTTW , Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
^ Fine then. so anyway, are we making both or just "Bards Are Butt Of Jokes" trope?

Spoony has more votes, and the crowner has been up for ages.
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
116 SantosLHalper9th Jul 2014 08:16:43 AM from The Canterlot of the North
A Gentlecolt and a Bard
Bumping
Belted plaid and mane sae braw,
Bonny Pony, Skyland Pony,
Have yet been at Canterlot,
Bonny Pony, Skyland Pony?
117 BinaryStep7th Aug 2014 11:19:35 PM from Wouldn't You Like To Know? , Relationship Status: It's so nice to be turned on again
The King of Infinite Decomposition
Either rename it back to Spoony Bard or change the rest of the page to match the new name. :/

Right now it just looks weird.
My opinions are secretly facts.
118 Larkmarn19th Sep 2014 10:32:19 AM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Bump.

Just randomly hit the page again... it's really a mess. We've got examples of "useless gimmick class," "this game has a bard (that may be awful, or it may be a gamebreaker)," "gimmick class," "the Bard is a gimmick class (with no mention of its effectiveness)"... it's awful.

The page is so schizophrenic in tone, almost like it has entries written for entirely different descriptions...
119 SeptimusHeap19th Oct 2014 12:42:19 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
With Mod Hat On
Calling crowner for:
  • Revive Spoony Bard as a trope about Bards being the butt of jokes, or maybe something broader.
  • Remake Quirky Bard into a trope about characters who's skill set is made useless by certain game mechanics.

Both options, since they aren't mutually exclusive.
120 theAdeptrogue19th Oct 2014 04:48:05 AM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
iRidescence
[up]For the second option, how will the new definition of Quirky Bard differ from Gimmick Class? Is it a subtrope? Also, will it need a new name?
121 doubleyouteeeff19th Oct 2014 10:17:05 AM from (Hudson) River running right on over my head , Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Political ends as sad remains will die
[up]Gimmick Class says in the description that the class's usefulness will vary wildly; the new definition of Quirky Bard implies uselessness, so I assume Gimmick Class will be a supertrope of Quirky Bard.
Not right away, not right away
122 DAN00429th Dec 2014 12:40:31 PM from The 0th Dimension
Super N00b Troper
How would this relate to Mechanically Unusual Class?
I am an absolute noob.
123 SeptimusHeap30th Dec 2014 02:36:03 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Well, that trope was created during this TRS.
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Page Action: Quirky Bard
21st Mar '14 9:41:25 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:

Total posts: 123
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