All hooked up.

I am a bit confused. Is C supposed to be hard-split, soft-split or "to be determined if this wins"? Does A require splitting the grades (and hard, soft or "figure that out later")?

[edit] OK, someone edited the options and added more. Nevermind.

edited 4th Apr '12 9:10:06 AM by lebrel

A does not require splitting the grades. Especially if the option to not use grades in the examples passes.

Hmm I can think of a few murky examples that would follow both of those personality and such Both are called Zettai Ryouiki too as its all about the gap created. (as they both create the gap.) Zettai Ryouiki combined with Modesty Shorts and such would be both too.

The Action Girl variety would be a subtrope not a sister trope.

I see a lot of misuse in a Hard split Soft split I think would work.

edited 4th Apr '12 9:24:06 AM by Raso

It'd only be a subtrope if it has the same connotations. If the hotpants variety has the same use, it's a subtrope. If it has different use (which is what I'm hearing), it's a sister trope.

I'm not a big fan of Golden Thigh Ratio for the new trope—it suggests more precision than what I think we're looking for here. I'm more partial to something more direct, like Short Skirts And Thigh Highs.

Do you have some examples in mind? I sort of fear that this may become one of those tricky tropes where one'll need to assume creator intent, even when there's no Word of God handy.

Its a subtrope because Zettai Ryouiki is all about the gap created from stockings and Skirt, shorts or both Skirt and short shorts.

Both are called that, the Shorts variety just wouldn't fit the grade system it should still be on the trope page and depending on how the crowner goes

• Any Grade soft split it should be Soft Split as well.
• No softsplit and just bullet points for each of the Grades in the description it should get a bullet point for itself.

I support the Bullet points for each and just leave the examples as is.

I can only think of very few sporty Tomboy types who wear this.

edited 4th Apr '12 9:43:05 AM by Raso

The terms are just place holders at the moment Raso. It's not a subtrope because it doesn't share the same connotations as the Grades do. It's a sister trope to the grades. The terms don't matter for purposes of organization.

As for the action girls, Fay from Cowboy Bebop. Alice from the third Resident Evil film. Those are the two off the top of my head. I'll come up with more.

edited 4th Apr '12 9:45:30 AM by shimaspawn

But again its called Zettai Ryouiki by everyone.

And the popularizer for the Hot Pants Zettai Ryouiki is Kallen Stadtfeld of Code Geass. (the writers knew what they were doing too considering the number of characters who wear it and they named a defense shield "Zettai Shugo Ryouiki" and this Rant on the subject

Looking at the page there are very few but it is a trend but it is still a subtrope to this.

Hinagiku of Hayate No Gotoku likes the hot pants variety but for sure fits the Tsundere personality and everything but Twin Tails at times an Action Girl when not clammering up about relationships, but usually when she is not wearing them.

The Hot Pants Action Girl Zettai Ryouiki is only a possibility. Many dont actually fit

Again Bullet points on personality types and that is good. Hard splitting like this and you will always get people calling this Zettai Ryouiki because that is exactly what it is and I am wholeheartedly against the split changing something like this is just asking for misuse as it is not what the rest of the world goes by.

IF ya want to get rid of the grades except S and just go by personality bullets then that would work too.

edited 4th Apr '12 10:37:05 AM by Raso

On the East-West question:

I think we can agree that when Samu-tan from the anime Baka no Tsubushi dresses in this manner*

with a blue skirt and yellow stockings, presumably

, it's ZR. But what if:

1. It's a live-action film set in Japan, and the director and producers are Japanese?
2. It's a live-action film set in Japan made by Westerners?
3. It's a live-action film set among a Japanese immigrant or expat community or ethnic enclave in the West, with an ethnically Japanese director?
4. It's a live-action film made by a Westerner who likes anime, as a deliberate reference?
5. It's a Western live-action film (though not necessarily a Western)?

When in doubt about whether it counts, check the symbolism. If the symbolism is the same as ZR, it's ZR. If not, put it on the supertrope to be safe.

I voted for the first option, because I believe Japanese language names should not be used to describe tropes that are not exclusive to Japanese culture. If I am reading this correctly, Option A would accomplish this by putting all examples that are not Asian in a different trope. Certainly all that business about "grades" doesn't apply to any Western fictional work.

We seem to have a contradiction in the results right now. Option A has consensus, but Option D does not and contradicts it. We can't both mention the grades and not mention the grades.

Isn't that covered by them being mutually exclusive? The first option seems to have gathered more support in total, so it invalidates option D.

Well, what if the Action Girl wears a skirt instead of hot pants along with the stockings? Like, say, Merry Nightmare?

edited 7th Apr '12 4:46:31 AM by Serocco

^^You're right. I shouldn't try to think this early.

~pats ccoa on the back~ Don't worry, I've barely slept myself.

Maybe that would go under the supertrope?

Besides Grade S, what other personality types do the other Zettai Ryouiki grades have?

This.

edited 7th Apr '12 4:52:28 AM by lu127

Where does Merry fit into thaT?

...I don't know. I don't know the series. A quick skim over the character sheet says Type A. But as with most tropes, examples that do not fall into any subtropes, go to the supertrope.

Keep in mind that just because the symbolism is common does not make it absolute. A work can Play With the symbolism, or not use it at all.

My opinion: no need to split at all, neither between Eastern/Western, nor A/B/S categories. The "personality" connotations are just secondary attachment to the actual legwear (and the mentioned "budding sexuality"), and they are not explicitly defined, or used consistently (and AFAIK, Grade S is more of a meme than an actual category); and Western works just don't put as much meaning into it.

Calling crowner in favour of option A so something can be done about this and clean up can begin.

I don't like the idea, in general, of having two tropes that are identical except for medium. Moreso if the difference is that one is anime and manga, the other is Western media (it gets a little to close to otherizing Japanese people and the "inscrutable Oriental" stereotype).