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Split and/or Create Supertrope: Zettai Ryouiki get usage counts

 126 ccoa, Wed, 4th Apr '12 9:08:08 AM from the Sleeping Giant
With Mod Hat On
All hooked up.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 127 lebrel, Wed, 4th Apr '12 9:08:47 AM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
I am a bit confused. Is C supposed to be hard-split, soft-split or "to be determined if this wins"? Does A require splitting the grades (and hard, soft or "figure that out later")?

[edit] OK, someone edited the options and added more. Nevermind.

edited 4th Apr '12 9:10:06 AM by lebrel

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 128 lu 127, Wed, 4th Apr '12 9:10:57 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
A does not require splitting the grades. Especially if the option to not use grades in the examples passes.
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
Cure Candy
Hmm I can think of a few murky examples that would follow both of those personality and such Both are called Zettai Ryouiki too as its all about the gap created. (as they both create the gap.) Zettai Ryouiki combined with Modesty Shorts and such would be both too.

The Action Girl variety would be a subtrope not a sister trope.

I see a lot of misuse in a Hard split Soft split I think would work.

edited 4th Apr '12 9:24:06 AM by Raso

 130 ccoa, Wed, 4th Apr '12 9:21:53 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
It'd only be a subtrope if it has the same connotations. If the hotpants variety has the same use, it's a subtrope. If it has different use (which is what I'm hearing), it's a sister trope.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 131 Do Know Butchie, Wed, 4th Apr '12 9:32:44 AM from San Juan, Puerto Rico.
Don't call me Hikaru.
I'm not a big fan of Golden Thigh Ratio for the new trope—it suggests more precision than what I think we're looking for here. I'm more partial to something more direct, like Short Skirts And Thigh Highs.

Action Girl Shorts And Socks: Actions girl wears shorts and thigh highs to help soften and feminize her.

Do you have some examples in mind? I sort of fear that this may become one of those tricky tropes where one'll need to assume creator intent, even when there's no Word of God handy.
Cure Candy
[up][up]Its a subtrope because Zettai Ryouiki is all about the gap created from stockings and Skirt, shorts or both Skirt and short shorts.

Both are called that, the Shorts variety just wouldn't fit the grade system it should still be on the trope page and depending on how the crowner goes

  • Any Grade soft split it should be Soft Split as well.
  • No softsplit and just bullet points for each of the Grades in the description it should get a bullet point for itself.

I support the Bullet points for each and just leave the examples as is.

[up] I can only think of very few sporty Tomboy types who wear this.

edited 4th Apr '12 9:43:05 AM by Raso

 133 shimaspawn, Wed, 4th Apr '12 9:44:14 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up] The terms are just place holders at the moment Raso. It's not a subtrope because it doesn't share the same connotations as the Grades do. It's a sister trope to the grades. The terms don't matter for purposes of organization.

As for the action girls, Fay from Cowboy Bebop. Alice from the third Resident Evil film. Those are the two off the top of my head. I'll come up with more.

edited 4th Apr '12 9:45:30 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Cure Candy
[up] But again its called Zettai Ryouiki by everyone.

And the popularizer for the Hot Pants Zettai Ryouiki is Kallen Stadtfeld of Code Geass. (the writers knew what they were doing too considering the number of characters who wear it and they named a defense shield "Zettai Shugo Ryouiki" and this Rant on the subject
C.C.: What did you just say!? Are you stupid? This is for a school uniform! I'm talking about a mini-skirt! The knee-length socks which show our shiny knees, or thigh highs that highlight the area between the edge of our skirt and our thighs! If you don't have a hard time choosing between these socks, you don't know anything about school uniforms.

Looking at the page there are very few but it is a trend but it is still a subtrope to this.

Hinagiku of Hayate No Gotoku likes the hot pants variety but for sure fits the Tsundere personality and everything but Twin Tails at times an Action Girl when not clammering up about relationships, but usually when she is not wearing them.

The Hot Pants Action Girl Zettai Ryouiki is only a possibility. Many dont actually fit

Again Bullet points on personality types and that is good. Hard splitting like this and you will always get people calling this Zettai Ryouiki because that is exactly what it is and I am wholeheartedly against the split changing something like this is just asking for misuse as it is not what the rest of the world goes by.

IF ya want to get rid of the grades except S and just go by personality bullets then that would work too.

edited 4th Apr '12 10:37:05 AM by Raso

 135 Hershele Ostropoler, Wed, 4th Apr '12 6:21:34 PM from BK.NY.US Relationship Status: Sharing a spaghetti noodle
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
On the East-West question:

I think we can agree that when Samu-tan from the anime Baka no Tsubushi dresses in this manner*, it's ZR. But what if:
  1. It's a live-action film set in Japan, and the director and producers are Japanese?
  2. It's a live-action film set in Japan made by Westerners?
  3. It's a live-action film set among a Japanese immigrant or expat community or ethnic enclave in the West, with an ethnically Japanese director?
  4. It's a live-action film made by a Westerner who likes anime, as a deliberate reference?
  5. It's a Western live-action film (though not necessarily a Western)?
The child is father to the manOedipus
 136 ccoa, Wed, 4th Apr '12 7:52:05 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
When in doubt about whether it counts, check the symbolism. If the symbolism is the same as ZR, it's ZR. If not, put it on the supertrope to be safe.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
I voted for the first option, because I believe Japanese language names should not be used to describe tropes that are not exclusive to Japanese culture. If I am reading this correctly, Option A would accomplish this by putting all examples that are not Asian in a different trope. Certainly all that business about "grades" doesn't apply to any Western fictional work.

 138 ccoa, Sat, 7th Apr '12 4:17:07 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
We seem to have a contradiction in the results right now. Option A has consensus, but Option D does not and contradicts it. We can't both mention the grades and not mention the grades.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 139 lu 127, Sat, 7th Apr '12 4:25:16 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Isn't that covered by them being mutually exclusive? The first option seems to have gathered more support in total, so it invalidates option D.
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
 140 Serocco, Sat, 7th Apr '12 4:45:10 AM from Miami, Florida
Serocco
Well, what if the Action Girl wears a skirt instead of hot pants along with the stockings? Like, say, Merry Nightmare?

edited 7th Apr '12 4:46:31 AM by Serocco

Men aren't men without women.
 141 ccoa, Sat, 7th Apr '12 4:46:20 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
^^You're right. I shouldn't try to think this early.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 142 lu 127, Sat, 7th Apr '12 4:47:36 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
~pats ccoa on the back~ Don't worry, I've barely slept myself.

[up][up] Maybe that would go under the supertrope?
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
 143 Serocco, Sat, 7th Apr '12 4:49:06 AM from Miami, Florida
Serocco
[up] Besides Grade S, what other personality types do the other Zettai Ryouiki grades have?
Men aren't men without women.
 144 lu 127, Sat, 7th Apr '12 4:52:19 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
This.

edited 7th Apr '12 4:52:28 AM by lu127

迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
 145 Serocco, Sat, 7th Apr '12 5:00:52 AM from Miami, Florida
Serocco
[up] Where does Merry fit into thaT?
Men aren't men without women.
 146 lu 127, Sat, 7th Apr '12 5:12:40 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
...I don't know. I don't know the series. A quick skim over the character sheet says Type A. But as with most tropes, examples that do not fall into any subtropes, go to the supertrope.
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
 147 ccoa, Sat, 7th Apr '12 5:14:22 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Keep in mind that just because the symbolism is common does not make it absolute. A work can Play With the symbolism, or not use it at all.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Winged Doom
My opinion: no need to split at all, neither between Eastern/Western, nor A/B/S categories. The "personality" connotations are just secondary attachment to the actual legwear (and the mentioned "budding sexuality"), and they are not explicitly defined, or used consistently (and AFAIK, Grade S is more of a meme than an actual category); and Western works just don't put as much meaning into it.
WE CLAIM THIS LAND FOR THE HIGH LORD. GOD BLESS THIS LAND AND OUR HIGH LORD.
 149 shimaspawn, Sat, 7th Apr '12 10:25:32 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Calling crowner in favour of option A so something can be done about this and clean up can begin.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 150 Hershele Ostropoler, Sat, 7th Apr '12 10:28:46 AM from BK.NY.US Relationship Status: Sharing a spaghetti noodle
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
I don't like the idea, in general, of having two tropes that are identical except for medium. Moreso if the difference is that one is anime and manga, the other is Western media (it gets a little to close to otherizing Japanese people and the "inscrutable Oriental" stereotype).
The child is father to the manOedipus

Page Action: Zettai Ryouiki Round 3
4th Apr '12 8:57:38 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Not all options are mutually exclusive, but some are. Exercise judgement.
Total posts: 263
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