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Cure CandyMost of those you posted there I think are just coincidental or just symbolic of the really young (Full House... seriously? that is a serious can of worms.) Those in this trope are all in the standard Anime Fanservice range (with actual adults who float into this get clips and other Stocking Filler stuff.) There are girls like Chika in B Gata H Kei who use this trope to her full advantage. ◊
edited 3rd Apr '12 10:45:38 AM by Raso
◥▶◀◤I'm not saying no western examples per se myself. I'm saying we should be careful with examples from the west to be honest, the views are very different. Different enough to warrant there being two separate pages one for ZR and one for the western view of stockings. Also the Full House is absurd I agree. If I saw that on this page I'd cut it without a thought or mention.
edited 3rd Apr '12 10:41:55 AM by Vyctorian
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Ravenous SophovoreSo what is this difference? Not of stockings, but of ZR specifically. I'm not certain what's so ludicrous about Full House - the character is old enough for it not be squicky, but young enough that she's fair game for "soft" fanservice. If it were an anime, there'd be no question she fit. (EDIT: for reference, the character is in her late teens in the last season)
edited 3rd Apr '12 10:43:28 AM by ccoa
All right, the difference between Western and Eastern uses are simple. The Eastern uses are separated by grade and each grade has a specific personality type or types attached to it.
edited 3rd Apr '12 10:42:28 AM by shimaspawn
Ravenous SophovoreThank you, that's what I've been asking for. So what we need is to spin off the Western version of the trope, because it is different enough from simply Stocking Filler. We also need that on the page itself, because it's currently missing, making A and B interchangeable. EDIT: Should we steal Golden Thigh Ratio as the name of the Western trope? I think it's a rather clever bit of Genius Bonus, myself, and, as noted by Playboy, the West does acknowledge that there is a sweet spot in the stocking/skin/skirt ratio, it's just not as... precise.
edited 3rd Apr '12 10:50:14 AM by ccoa
A pocketful of saudade.Is it possible to use the trope without the grades?
In the Western senses, yes. In the Eastern one, not so much, no. The difference is there, but people keep eating away at it because they find the idea that one grade is sexier than the other creepy. What we really mean though is that it's the difference in character type. Not reaction to that character.
A pocketful of saudade.No, I mean in fiction, not in our page. I mean, is it possible for it to not conform to that personality stereotyping? If so, we need to note in the page how valid is the grading thing. Probably/often/widespread/especially in X/etc.
She's Got Legs and Stocking Stuffer but not ZR.
Cure CandyUnsure of what your talking about there but there are many ways to set some varitiy to Zettai Ryouiki with extravagant designs◊ combined with Thigh-high boots◊angled◊ Really freaken extravagent (might be close to NSFW)◊ White (the really innocent ones) black colored (most common) Usually with clips like ◊ its adult usage only.
edited 3rd Apr '12 12:36:51 PM by Raso
like this, not because the skirt is shorter than the stockings.
Cure CandyOh that.... yeah that is something different than this, (it was quite common in WW 2 era films IIRC) also those Fishnet Stockings are something different from this too a whole other side of kinky.
edited 3rd Apr '12 1:22:06 PM by Raso
A pocketful of saudade.So what's the position of these grades in the trope page? A "frequent twist on the trope"?
Note: the 'clips' are garters which are popular in western Stocking Filler and why don't we have fishnet stockings?! That is a big thing.*
Stocking Filler. I suppose you could propose a split to a separate trope if you feel there's enough examples.
No, the point of the grades is that different lengths and variations are associated with different personality types.
A pocketful of saudade.But it's not always like that. So is it like, a loose convention?
Ravenous SophovoreIf we're defining the trope as a expository costume rather than "only" a fanservice trope, then examples that don't fit and aren't Playing With the trope probably should be axed.
Cure CandyIt is both though. Soft Split everything?
edited 3rd Apr '12 2:31:14 PM by Raso
Tali'Shepard Vas Normandy-RannochMaybe we should use personality types as divisions rather than "grades"?
Per-fec-tion: -n- an exemplification of supreme excellence; an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence (see also: King Zeal)
O' Allah, save EgyptGrade A and B are more of a personality "sliding scale" between innocence and sexual aggressiveness, to be honest. Grade S is only given when the personality is explicitly a Tsundere type and it's combined with Girlish Pigtails.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
Don't call me Hikaru.So if we do end up splitting the examples, with "Zettai Ryouiki" being the trope page for "stocking lengths as shorthand for specific personalities", would those examples be replicated in a page that doesn't include that specific aspect? And where would that leave Japanese examples like Faye Valentine from Cowboy Bebop, whose use of the trope has more to do with Stocking Filler than the whole "budding sexuality" symbolism? And while we're on that, where would examples—mostly Western—where the look is associated with stuff like prostitution/sluttiness (see: Pretty Woman) go *? Or are we actually thinking of axing examples instead of splitting them?
Being in the west the concept is generally "those are clothes we put on our feet and legs" making it no more trope worthy than say a sweaters or T-shirts, [...]I don't think this is true, actually—or else we wouldn't have gotten articles linking Emma Roberts' use of thigh-high stockings+short pants in specific connection with Julia Roberts' use of thigh-high boots+skirt in Pretty Woman. It might be more common than it once was, but it's still something you very deliberately choose to wear, and doing so is still considered notable.
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