Series/ Ben 10 Omniverse

Oh, I misread that and thought that you didn't see it, as if didn't see it in that way.

Aaaaah^^' Sorry, I should have said I didn't watch them. My hope in Omniverse getting better had already long died out by that point so I only ever bothered to watch on very rare occasions. I completely believe you if you say Ben was better in that episode, though.

And of course I put it above writers. You can't sell toys like this!

... Fair enough. Which still makes me wonder how they sell toys with Teen Titans Go.

Omniverse really needed an actual unified vision as opposed to wildly different interpretations of Ben from episode to episode.

Ironic considering one of Wyatt's main criticism to AUF was that "Ben had no personnality."

It's like someone mixed Be cool, Scooby doo's art style mixed with some Fisher-Price toy line. I'll avoid this one like the plaque, just like Powerpuff Girls 2016.

If there's anything to justify this series is that Ben seems to be wearing the same style of clothes he has in Omniverse, which possibly means that this is Omniverse's take on Ben's past. All in all, it's still off about the style choices.

Well, there is fact that heroes (and I use the term loosely) from Titans show are already marketable in their normal looks, even when they don't use their powers for anything more exciting then opening a jar of pickles. Raven plushies can still sell. So unless Ben just spends whole episode as Stinfly while trying to cure hiccups or as Cannonbolt while attempting to find best gift for grandpa's birthday...

Please tell me you at least watched the Powerpuff Girl reboot before deciding to avoid it like the plague.

Oooh, so THAT's how they did it.

Once again, only an idiot would believe making a hero incompetent and childish is better personality wise then having him be heroic, mature, and stoic.

What would have been so wrong with Ben being the straight man being a natural evolution of his character? Having him grow mature past his childish self when he was ten and cocky behavioral issues in the previous series?

After that moment in the end of UAF when we had that montage of everything Ben went through and what he experienced to get to point he was now it was such a major disappointment what we got character wise for the most of Omniverse.

" idiot would believe making a hero incompetent and childish is better personality wise then having him be heroic, mature, and stoic" Eh, I wouldn't agree, at least not as general statement. Mature stoic isn't always-always better. Should Deadpool be more mature? Should Darkwing Duck act more seriously? Would Booster Gold work better if he wasn't all about publicity? Would Michangelo work better if he was more like Leonardo? Heck, we have trope for that.

Yes, I did watch it but it's just not the same.

Things in those characters were conceived with those flaws and often had other people to play off of. Not to mention all those characters stayed the relevant same age. They did not start off as a kid and had years go by and then have them experience maturity and character growth and then hit the reset button on that development.

Which is why I said that I don't agree, at least now general statement. I'm just saying that your first sentence that I quoted sounds as if mature was always better, no matter the context, what with worlds "making hero" rather then "making Ben" or even "changing hero to".

I do concede to the point that clearer language and distinctions would have made more sense.

I did not like how Ben just became a egotistical, arrogant, idiot most of the time in Omniverse. The guys been a hero for years & instead of improving & growing as a person, it feels like a regressed into nothing more than an immature man-child. I know he should have flaws, but he is nothing but flaws & Rook comes off as a better hero than him in everyway.

I will admit that making Ben a Vanilla Protagonist isn't necessarly a good idea either. Personally I think the ideal would be to find a balance between mischevious and more mature; Kinda like Spider-Man (the comic Spider-Man I mean, not the animated version from that series I won't name).

I am fine with Ben being a bit immature, or even vain, from time to time. I just don't like when it happens in situations where he should get serious or where it makes him act obnoxious. You know, things like him not taking Vilgax seriously (and yes, that counts for both Omniverse and Vengeance of Vilgax) or when he acts overly petty. I just can't appreciate the drama of a situation or treat a big villain seriously if he is cracking jokes in the middle of it, nor can I sympathize with Ben when he clearly displays no empathy toward others. I also don't like when they try to make the immature jokester side the core of his character, like they did with the reveal he loves Mr Smoothie over all. But yeah, aside from that, I am fine with him joking or displaying occasional flaws. It's all a matter of how you do it.

If they were going to do that they should have stuck to funny-filler episodes and limit those as much as possible.

And the gags with the ,perfect Omnitrix was just terrible. They just made Ben too idiotic in how he handled it. Dude even 10 year old Ben was shown trying to practice and master it which led to him unlocking master control so there was no excuse.

Especially after Azmuth revealed how Ben was using it was wrong because of the pressure sensitiveness of it.

Now whether Azmuth should have known better and made it where it wasn't pressure sensitive to his species sense he knew he was giving it to Ben or Ben should have grown a brain and adapted with that detail in mind is up to one's taste on how they would have liked it to be handle I guess.

Eh, to be honest I blame Azmuth more than Ben on that one. For one, Azmuth had no reason to make entirely different commands; if anything he should have made them easier to use. Back in the Original Show, Ben got the Omnitrix by accident, but by the time of Omniverse he built it specifically for Ben, so really he has no excuse. Plus, there is the fact the so-called "perfect" Omnitrix not only displayed very few new features that the original couldn't have done, but some of the new features it did display made absolutely no sense (I am still trying to figure out what Azmuth was high on when he came up with the Randomizer function from War of the World: "Hey, I got an idea! Let's make a function on that thing that causes the user to randomly turn into various aliens with no control at all and makes it practically impossible to use properly! That would be awesome!").

OK, let me think what are new functions on OV Omnitrix...I think officially, al DNA is digital, which is doesn't need Primus and presumably this is why Ben can use Ghostfreak safely (though Skurd can still feed from it, so I dunno)... it has voice mail....randomizer....Life Form Lock used by Bullfrag..security lock that only caused trouble to Ben when he got younger....and then there is this weird deux ex machina in last episode...

Hey, now that i think about it, why Omnitrix changed shape at the beginning of Alien Force? What that changed?

Technically the voice mail and life form lock both shew up in previous serie; Omniverse just was the first instance where Ben used the latter willingly instead of activating it by accident. As for the Primus thing, setting aside the huge plothole it created, it's unclear if that actually was an upgrade from the new Omnitrix or just a change because Primus was retconned out of reality by Alien X.

And yeah, the change of shape of the Omnitrix in AF never was clearly explained, but at least that one actually brought some new features that, you know, served purpose. The Omnitrix did feel like it was improved.

What was the Plot Hole with Primus?

Also yeah once again it adds up to lazy and uncaring writing. The fact that they lampshaded the gag shows how tired and unoriginal they were being.

Poking fun at yourself does not give you the go ahead to write garbage.

What was the Plot Hole with Primus?

The Feedback thing. It's stated that whatever Malware did to the Omnitrix left some malfunction that made it unable to acquire Conductoid dna again, which is why Ben couldn't just scan it to get Feedback again. Problem is, Ben changed Omnitrix twice since that happened, and it really makes no sense that the Ultimatrix and new Omnitrix would have been created with this malfunction. Now if Primus still was canon, that issue would be fixed (poorly but still), as you could make the argument Malware was (somehow) capable of touching directly Primus, and since all Omnitrixes would have been connected to Primus that would have explained to a very small extent why they were all affected. But they made Primus no longer canon, and as thus each Omnitrix is independant, which makes it nonsensical. And before someone tries the "Well, that's why Ben was able to recover Feedback at the end: it was a new Omnitrix and he didn't realize it", that STILL makes the characters complete idiots for not thinking sooner about such an obvious solution, because even Azmuth acted like if Feedback couldn't be recovered.

With Ben being serious or not, is the change between original ben and alien force, clearly they have trouble balancing fun and jokester Ben with serious one, so they move from one extreme into the other

Pretty much, yeah. Honestly it's kinda sad that they can't think of any other way to explore the character because I feel he has a lot more potential than that. I mean, just imagine how much Character Development you could get just from the impact his shapeshiting has on his perception of the world. You could even have him starting to find it difficult to still see himself as just human because he has been so many different creatures.

What Lampshade Hanging?

Anyway, this is why I take "Alien X removed stuff" excuse with grain of salt. It's not like it was super necesary to remove Primus and it's stupid to use world reboot as excuse to remove literally one or two objects/stories that some one doesn't like.

Same here. Though to date I am still not sure how much of this explanation is canon and how much actually was an Epilectic Tree by the fans.

There are some new pictures. There is picture with some animal creatures that are probably Animo's and there is some red energy that just might be Hex's, but the only sure thing I have is this Zombozo.◊ He's....okay? Ish. No new characters really worth showing.

Also, I though I was fine with Grey Matter's look, but now I see he has some really ugly◊ stubble.◊

Lastly, a thought. At first I though that removal of Ghostfreak, Wildmutt and Ripjaws/redesign of Stinkly was caused due to some aversion to non-bipeds, but now I wonder, any chance they removed/changed aliens that were too ugly/scary/non-heroic looking?

Eh, same opinion than you about Zombozo. I admit I miss the nightmarish aspect of Zombozo's design in previous shows, but let's be fair and wait to see him actually in action. Until then I am indifferent.

Is that really stubble on Grey Matter's face? I was under the impression it could be wrinkles, or something like that.

t first I though that removal of Ghostfreak, Wildmutt and Ripjaws/redesign of Stinkly was caused due to some aversion to non-bipeds, but now I wonder, any chance they removed/changed aliens that were too ugly/scary/non-heroic looking?

... That's actually an interesting theory. I sure hope it's not true though, because Creepy Good was one of the major factors I selected my favourie aliens with.

Stubble, wrinkles, whatever that is it's ugly. And not in good alien freaky ugly way.