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Saiga (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71976: Dec 16th 2017 at 12:35:42 AM

You can have most of those without dropping Goten and Trunks. And I don't care if someone is a Saiyan, given that they're hardly different from humans anyway (they're definitely no less interesting, the only thing that distinguishes them from humans is that they have more).

Drop the humans, have the kids and Boo. Bringing Roshi back just undermines his original character, in addition to making no sense and giving us more terrible pervert humour.

Although, 17 is really boring and didn't need to come back either. At least it's more logical than the humans, but he has even less substance than the kids and no reason to stick around. He's better off staying away when we've got so many characters to juggle.

I think you're really overstating Trunks' smugness. He was better than Goten, and most everyone else too. He's mostly smug about Gotenks, which he's also right about - Gotenks was originally second only to Gohan. And he hasn't even been that smug throughout Super anyway.

It's nice seeing Trunks turn out a bit spoiled due to him having a much easier life than Future Trunks.

edited 16th Dec '17 12:37:00 AM by Saiga

randomness4 Snow Ghost from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Snow Ghost
#71977: Dec 16th 2017 at 12:35:49 AM

[up][up]That's what makes them great...and it applies to more characters.

edited 16th Dec '17 12:36:21 AM by randomness4

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71978: Dec 16th 2017 at 12:41:00 AM

No. No more Saiyans. We already have three and they're unquestionably the three strongest in Team 7. Putting G+T in just means you have to force every non-Saiyan down another peg and it's just asinine.

Roshi may have the stupid pervert humour but G+T always brought the dumb toilet humour and Roshi had some legitimately good moments in the Tournament. Tien could have been great as well if they had let him use his full arsenal of moves.

"they're definitely no less interesting, the only thing that distinguishes them from humans is that they have more"

While I do give credit that one or two of Gotenks's moves are nice (the ghosts thing and the donut thing) they're blown out of the water by Roshi and Tien at their prime and even Yamcha had some pretty damn cool looking moves (especially the spirit ball). I'd definitely say that the arsenals of moves of the humans are way more interesting.

But most of all, I'm sick of your species always determining how strong you are in DB. It's silly and it's reductive and it's hugely irritating that two tiny brats somehow unlock what used to be a powerup with actual meaning with no effort and then become one of the main assets (as you say, they're stronger than anyone except Gohan at one point) despite having not spent a fraction of the amount of effort into getting that strong as anyone else.

edited 16th Dec '17 12:46:35 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: Aug, 2015
The Head of the Hydra
#71979: Dec 16th 2017 at 12:44:35 AM

Shit in hindsight of Kefla they could have brought in Trunks & Gotenks so they can fuse.

Sure it be risky but it be interesting especially if they use the Potarra earrings this time.

........ Man I miss those kids now.

[up] You really, really love the humans.

edited 16th Dec '17 12:45:25 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71980: Dec 16th 2017 at 12:46:55 AM

[up] I just love the original DB, and I don't hate Saiyans but I do hate how the story just relies on them to win everything. That's why I like Goku's Ultra Instinct transformation, it's a fighting style that he got because he's Goku not because he's part of a particular alien species.

I also hate how the rest of the cast just gets dumped because they're not Saiyans. It happens to Piccolo as well, though he's at least just behind the Saiyans. As soon as Gotenks is a thing everyone else has to move a step down on the totem pole to make way for the two Saiyabrats despite them not working nearly as hard as anyone else.

edited 16th Dec '17 12:50:03 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Snow Ghost from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Snow Ghost
#71981: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:03:22 AM

It's suppose to be a shuffling cast....but Super's kinda backpedaling on that.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
Saiga (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71982: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:06:57 AM

No. No more Saiyans

That's not a sentiment I can get behind without an actual reason for it. I don't care about race unless there is an actual difference, and human v Saiyan the only difference is that Saiyans come with perks. So I'll take them over humans.

I don't care about working hard or earning power. DB has never been about that. I don't care about making humans feel good. I don't care about moving them up the totem pole.

The moves the humans have, don't have anything to do with their race. There's no reason other characters couldn't use them, or learn their own moves.

Goten/Trunks don't even have toilet humour outside of Toei's movies. And even if they did, that's infinitely better than rooting for a sex offender.

It's not like Goten/Trunks did nothing for their power either. They always used to play-fight each other which had the same results as the other Super Saiyans sparring. Most of Goku and Vegeta's gains came from that, even if it took a long time for them to get to where they were, it was really down to being really inefficient earlier in life.

Besides, you'd have to come up with something even more ridiculous and undeserved to suddenly bring the humans up than you would to keep Goten and Trunks relevant. Also, Gotenks didn't really move anyone down the totem pole except Goku and Vegeta, who are now Gods.

And yeah, DB always had a rotating cast back when the series began. The humans were left behind before Toriyama even CAME UP with Saiyans, don't blame it on race, that's just how Toriyama always conceived the characters. Yamcha and Kuririn were created to be inferior to Goku. Ten was surpassed immediately after his arc, and the next arc cemented that he wouldn't keep up. Piccolo started out weaker than Goku and only ever got to be stronger at certain points of Z.

Race only made sense of trends that already existed and was part of those characters. And allowed Toriyama to justify new characters being relevant more easily.

Goten and Trunks didn't make anyone irrelevant. Those characters had already been made irrelevant, so their inclusion only spreads focus to someone other than Goku, Vegeta and Gohan.

edited 16th Dec '17 1:11:12 AM by Saiga

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from Australia Since: Feb, 2015
#71983: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:11:42 AM

If Universe 7 didn't have Plot Armor, how do you think they would've done so far in the tournament?

Saiga (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71984: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:12:34 AM

The weaker half of the cast would be eliminated and Goku/Vegeta/Freeza maaaaybe Gohan would have done even better

The God-level characters don't really have plot armour, they're among the best in all universes. That the weaker universes are still in against them is more plot fiat than anything else.

edited 16th Dec '17 1:13:05 AM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: Aug, 2015
The Head of the Hydra
#71985: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:14:06 AM

I don't believe that thing about everyone being exhausted or tired.

Like Vegeta has barely been pushed this tournament & his only match with an actual equal in Toppo was cut short.

This arc did not do mook rush well.

edited 16th Dec '17 1:21:11 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#71986: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:19:24 AM

The entire thing earlier on about conserving stamina is even worse considering Goku has been completely drained twice now with basically zero effects.

randomness4 Snow Ghost from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Snow Ghost
#71987: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:20:35 AM

Wouldn't it be more like a mook rush? Few characters were actually that strong.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: Aug, 2015
The Head of the Hydra
#71988: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:22:19 AM

[up] Oh yeah that is more fitting.

[up][up] Seriously his stamina recovery is breaking some suspense of disbelief rules there.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Rinsankajugin HIIIHOOO!!! from XT, Oinotna Nas Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: I know
HIIIHOOO!!!
#71989: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:33:22 AM

The new FighterZ trailer came out:

We are Angels, indeed...

Gavan, Let's get jiggy!
randomness4 Snow Ghost from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Snow Ghost
#71990: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:36:20 AM

(Sees Video Thumbnail)

"I hope you'll come back someday. See ya later!"

Spirit Bomb-dama.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71991: Dec 16th 2017 at 1:59:34 AM

That's not a sentiment I can get behind without an actual reason for it. I don't care about race unless there is an actual difference, and human v Saiyan the only difference is that Saiyans come with perks. So I'll take them over humans.

I don't have a lot to say about this statement except to point out that having an alien race just be "human+" is pretty unimaginative and it's what Saiyans have been reduced to from their glory days as monkey space pirates.

I don't care about working hard or earning power. DB has never been about that."
It used to be, back when Dragonball was actually legitimately good and not just asspulls and power-level wanking.

The moves the humans have, don't have anything to do with their race.
That's what makes them interesting. I don't actually care that the "humans" or "namek" have been left behind so much as I care that some interesting martial artists have been left behind because the Saiyans get all the advantages. Why does it always have to be about race?

Goten/Trunks don't even have toilet humour outside of Toei's movies. And even if they did, that's infinitely better than rooting for a sex offender.
Need I remind you we are rooting for 2-4 mass murderers (depending on what you think about Fat Buu and Piccolo, but definitely Freeza and Vegeta). I'm not a fan of the Roshi perverted antics being turned up to 11 but this is definitely not the show to moralize about.

It's not like Goten/Trunks did nothing for their power either. They always used to play-fight each other which had the same results as the other Super Saiyans sparring.
I honestly can't tell if you're serious.

Most of Goku and Vegeta's gains came from that, even if it took a long time for them to get to where they were, it was really down to being really inefficient earlier in life.
Oh my god you are.

Goku and Vegeta had to work really damn hard to just get to the level to unlock Super Saiyan. They were both experienced martial artists. They were not two untrained *children*.

Besides, you'd have to come up with something even more ridiculous and undeserved to suddenly bring the humans up than you would to keep Goten and Trunks relevant.
Ridiculous, maybe. "Undeserved"? The humans have been training practically non stop for a decade or more. Goten and Trunks had a play fight in a forest and were suddenly stronger than any of them put together, not to mention humans didn't actually break any rules of powering up. They just made massive gains through training. Goten and Trunks actively broke the rules of how you got Super Saiyan and they had to introduce that bullshit about S Cells to get any of that to make sense.

And yeah, DB always had a rotating cast back when the series began. The humans were left behind before Toriyama even CAME UP with Saiyans, don't blame it on race, that's just how Toriyama always conceived the characters. Yamcha and Kuririn were created to be inferior to Goku. Tien was surpassed immediately after his arc, and the next arc cemented that he wouldn't keep up. Piccolo started out weaker than Goku and only ever got to be stronger at certain points of Z.

Yes, and Goku used to be better than these characters because he was a fantastic martial artist who trained really hard, not because he was part of a superpowered alien race.

Race only made sense of trends that already existed and was part of those characters. And allowed Toriyama to justify new characters being relevant more easily.

Race actively made Goku less unique by incorporating some of his traits into his race as standard, and it meant that characters began to be defined by their race rather than being unique.

Goten and Trunks didn't make anyone irrelevant. Those characters had already been made irrelevant, so their inclusion only spreads focus to someone other than Goku, Vegeta and Gohan.

Yet when characters like 18, 17 and Roshi come back for Super you want them made irrelevant in favour of more Saiyans. You complained about nostalgia bias; you want to know something? You're right, there's no storyline reason Roshi and 18 and 17 are this strong (just like there's no way Kale and Caulifa and Kafla should be as strong as they are). The reason they're in is nostalgia bias; and the reason people feel nostalgic towards them is because they were cool, interesting, good characters, and Goten and K. Trunks were spoilt brats.

edited 16th Dec '17 4:36:00 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71992: Dec 16th 2017 at 2:45:16 AM

Please learn to use quoteblocks. Your post is extremely difficult to read that way.

I don't have a lot to say about this statement except to point out that having an alien race just be "human+" is pretty unimaginative and it's what Saiyans have been reduced to from their glory days as monkey space pirates.

What does this have to do with anything? They don't need to be imaginative when the alternative is humans. You can criticize "human+" as boring but that would make regular humans even more boring.

It used to be, back when Dragonball was actually legitimately good and not just nostalgia fodder and power-level wanking.

This is simply untrue. The series started with Goku easily outdoing people who worked harder than him, because he was so talented. It laughed in the face of hard work. Nostalgia also has nothing to do with it - the nostalgia driven moves are super are mostly about bringing back older, weaker characters so I have no idea what that is even meant to argue against. Really feels like you're just tossing out buzzwords and whatever criticism you can rather than focusing on a clear point.

That's what makes them interesting. I don't actually care that the "humans" or "namek" have been left behind so much as I care that some interesting martial artists have been left behind because the Saiyans get all the advantages. Why does it always have to be about race?

It doesn't. But you can give interesting moves to any character, so you can just do that with the characters that make more sense to use with the story. As an aside, most of the human's techniques really aren't that interesting and the characters themselves even less so.

Need I remind you we are rooting for 2-4 mass murderers (depending on what you think about Fat Buu and Piccolo, but definitely Freeza and Vegeta). I'm not a fan of the Roshi perverted antics being turned up to 11 but this is definitely not the show to moralize about.

I'm not rooting for Freeza and Vegeta is no longer a mass murderer. Yes, he didn't repent for what he's done but it's a far cry from still actively doing horrible things. And it's also such a weak defense to say there are worse things. The biggest issue with Roshi as, while it's obvious that mass murder is bad, works that indulge in pervert humour really undersell what a serious problem it is. You were never asked to laugh at Vegeta killing people.

I honestly can't tell if you're serious.

Oh my god you are.

Goku and Vegeta had to work really damn hard to just get to the level to unlock Super Saiyan. They were both experienced martial artists. They were not two untrained *children*.

Now you're being insulting.

Let me elaborate: Goku and Trunks both explain in the Android arc that sparring with equals will produce the best results. Goku further adds that doing so while Super Saiyan will produce even higher results, and is the biggest part of their training in the RoSaT. After doing so, they reached a completely different level of power than they previously had as Super Saiyans. Just look at Gohan: he gained Super Saiyan at an age 1-2 years older than Goten. Not a full year later, he's mastered the form, surpassed Goku by a wide margin, and able to unlock Super Saiyan 2 from rage.

As hybrids, Goten and Trunks should follow Gohan's example more than they should follow Goku or Vegeta's. They achieved Super Saiyan earlier, and trained together much in the same way that Goku, Vegeta, Trunks and Gohan did, gaining the benefits of Super Saiyan Full Power. And they didn't even end up as strong as a weakend Gohan, let alone the 9 year old Gohan they are 1-3 years away from in age.

Not to mention, Goku and Vegeta reached the level of getting to Super Saiyan through primarily Zenkai abuse. Goku may have been training for years by the point where he became Super Saiyan, but most of his gains came from 6 days of training and zenkais received. That is a bigger part of why he is so powerful.

Ridiculous, maybe. "Undeserved"? The humans have been training practically non stop for a decade or more.

That doesn't mean they deserve anything now. You wouldn't be able to connect it to what they've previously done, so it'd be the exact same as giving them a free power-up for nothing just because people feel bad about them.

oten and Trunks had a play fight in a forest and were suddenly stronger than any of them put together, not to mention humans didn't actually break any rules of powering up. They just made massive gains through training. Goten and Trunks actively broke the rules of how you got Super Saiyan and they had to introduce that bullshit about S Cells to get any of that to make sense.

S cells was introduced a couple of weeks ago. We had two decades of Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks without needing them as an explanation, and instead had another one: hybrids are prodigies. Which is what we got years before than in Gohan. Waving the rage requirement is a small break needed to make the plot move more efficiently, and characters like Vegeta and Future Trunks already achieved the forms off-panel before that.

Yes, and Goku used to be better than these characters because he was a fantastic martial artist who trained really hard, not because he was part of a superpowered alien race.

No, actually, he was better than Yamcha and Kuririn before he even started training under Roshi, and he was better than Tenshinhan because he drank the holy water. Everyone attributed his strength to being special and unusual, not commenting that he worked harder than them or anything. If it was just hard work, the other characters could potentially keep up with him. They couldn't.

Race actively made Goku less unique by incorporating some of his traits into his race as standard, and it meant that characters began to be defined by their race rather than being unique.

Barely any of his traits were incorporated into his race, except for Oozaru which he never made use of anyway. Giving a reason for his strength and aptitude is helpful for the series, and he got a lot more out of being made an alien than whatever he lost. Really, how unique was Goku compared to the humans before he was made a Saiyan? He had his tail and Oozaru, and he was better than them. But as said, Oozaru stopped being use, his tail stopped being relevant, and he still has that "better than you" edge against the other pure Saiyans. He's still touted as being really special for being Goku.

Yet when characters like 18, 17 and Roshi come back for Super you want them made irrelevant in favour of more Saiyans.

No, I don't. I want the story to actually develop the new characters they introduce, and to use characters that make sense. I don't want the characters used just because they're Saiyans, I just set aside race - and having done so, I see no issue with their inclusion.

Also, I never said to drop 18. I specifically said to drop other characters, so it's a false dichotomy to say I want to drop her just because I want Goten/Trunks to do something. I've complained about Kuririn being used over her in Resurrection F. I've complained about 17 overshadowing her in this arc, and her not being used well. I like 18 and I want more 18. 17 doesn't bother me but I don't see it being a good idea to bring him back when he makes sense to stay away and we've got so many characters to juggle already.

You complained about nostalgia bias; you want to know something? You're right, there's no storyline reason Roshi and 18 and 17 are this strong (just like there's no way Kale and Caulifa and Kafla should be as strong as they are). The reason they're in is nostalgia bias; and the reason people feel nostalgic towards them is because they were cool, interesting, good characters, and Goten and K. Trunks were spoilt brats.

I don't find nostalgia a very strong argument. I'm more interested in a sensible story, especially when I don't find those characters as interesting or cool. Hell, 17 barely has any character at all!

Also Goten's hardly spoiled. Trunks' spoiled nature can easily go through character development, and it would be natural to expect this to happen if the series was interested in using him. Need I remind you how much of a spoiled brat Kuririn started as? He was significantly worse than Trunks has ever been, but he's a completely different person now.

edited 16th Dec '17 3:29:07 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#71993: Dec 16th 2017 at 3:48:55 AM

Goten and Trunks are uninteresting, flat, and immature. They would be the most boring/annoying part of the Tournament of Power. Roshi got two massive bits of character development in this Saga, both explaining his desire to be relevant again (Goku and Krillin inspired him) and getting him past his most prominent character flaw. Roshi has been one of the best parts of this arc, and I wouldn't trade him and Krillin or Tenshinhan for Goten and Trunks in a million years.

Saiga (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71994: Dec 16th 2017 at 4:01:33 AM

I think Roshi's character development has been entirely detrimental. Him successfully passing the torch was really nice, and the current arc goes completely against what he was orginally working toward over the first four arcs in the series just for fanservice. In isolation it looks like an inspiring scene, but doesn't fit well and it will make things even worse if he retires again (which is going to be likely, as they won't have a role for him in every arc they do).

The perversion thing was beyond ridiculous, the better way would be to stop bringing it up. He doesn't act like a pervert in his appearances in the Boo arc. Having him 'train' it makes the whole thing incredibly cringe-worthy, especially when the mentality behind it doesn't frame it as immoral but merely something that could be inconvenient to Roshi. yeah, that's the only reason not to be a pervert

Goten and Trunks were immature as 6 and 7 year olds, that's hardly surprising and something I'd expect to go away with if they were allowed to age and receive development. As for being uninteresting or flat, I disagree, especially when compared to characters who finished their arcs a long time ago. Someone like Ten is ridiculously flat at this point. His personal arc involving Tao and the Crane Hermit was nice, but that doesn't mean he should stick around long after that stopped being relevant to anything going on.

Goten and Trunks are undeveloped for sure, but that's because they haven't been given the same chances. They were around for one arc before the original series ended, and they haven't been focused on since. Meanwhile, the other characters had multiple arcs to develop over, and have finished their personal character arcs. Better for them not to overstay their welcome, and Goten and Trunks have plenty of room to grow as characters if given the focus.

I'd definitely take that over going back and retreading old ground with old characters while making illogical plot decisions to facilitate that.

randomness4 Snow Ghost from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Snow Ghost
#71995: Dec 16th 2017 at 4:02:15 AM

[up][up]That last part seems like it's a given..

edited 16th Dec '17 4:02:35 AM by randomness4

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71996: Dec 16th 2017 at 4:26:13 AM

This is simply untrue. The series started with Goku easily outdoing people who worked harder than him, because he was so talented. It laughed in the face of hard work.

The only people Goku outdoes at the start of the series are Yamcha and Krillin, both of whom it would be very difficult to say work harder than Goku. Remember, Goku's spent his life catching his own food and living in the wild. Past that point Goku really starts getting into the training in-between arcs, which is where the majority of his power comes from, the only exception being the Ultra Divine Water. Goku is slightly better than Tien the first time they fight, the victory famously being influenced by getting hit by a car as he was falling from the sky. He drank the Ultra Divine Water to trump King Piccolo. Not going to justify that, it was a lazy plot device. I don't like it, very few people do. But everything else in the DB portion is pure hard work and guts.

Barely any of his traits were incorporated into his race, except for Oozaru which he never made use of anyway. Giving a reason for his strength and aptitude is helpful for the series, and he got a lot more out of being made an alien than whatever he lost. Really, how unique was Goku compared to the humans before he was made a Saiyan?

Really enjoys fighting - previously a Goku trait, now a Saiyan trait Bounces back from injury with renewed determination - previously a Goku trait, now a Saiyan trait Voracious appetite - previously a Goku trait, now a Saiyan trait

Goku doesn't have a whole ton of character traits and losing so many to his race really does a number on his character.

We had two decades of Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks without needing them as an explanation, and instead had another one: hybrids are prodigies. Which is what we got years before than in Gohan. Waving the rage requirement is a small break needed to make the plot move more efficiently, and characters like Vegeta and Future Trunks already achieved the forms off-panel before that.

The first part of this paragraph I'm willing to agree with (even if it makes Gohan markedly less unique) but the bit about waving the rage requirement I'm not. The rage requirement has given us three of the most iconic scenes in Dragonball (Goku SSJ, Trunks SSJ in history of Trunks and Gohan SSJ 2). It's also basically the reason the form *exists*. It is a form of rage turned to power. Taking the rage out of the equation trivialises it.

More to the point, Vegeta and Trunks were fairly well trained warriors before they underwent the transformation.

edited 16th Dec '17 4:29:52 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Snow Ghost from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Snow Ghost
#71997: Dec 16th 2017 at 4:35:12 AM

Just because he's constantly training doesn't mean he isn't naturally better.

Him being naturally better is why he stopped training under the turtle hermit while Kriller and Yamucha still did.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71998: Dec 16th 2017 at 4:37:04 AM

Goku stopped training under Roshi because Kami was going to train him.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Snow Ghost from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Snow Ghost
#71999: Dec 16th 2017 at 4:40:13 AM

Um...that didn't happen until after King Piccoro was defeated.

Before that he was just travelling the world and gaining experience that way.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72000: Dec 16th 2017 at 4:46:27 AM

Well, yeah, but that was on Master Roshi's orders, though I get what you're saying.

edited 16th Dec '17 4:48:53 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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