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Unclear Description: Nuclear Weapons Taboo get usage counts

 1 Ookamikun, Tue, 27th Mar '12 3:28:02 AM from the lupine den
Wolves, wolves, wolves!
A bit of a minor thing really, but anyone want to fix the description? The opening pretty much juxtaposes it as if it's important solely in Anime & Manga.
Lone wolf? Hah! "Lone" wolves die out of hunger and loneliness. The wolf needs the pack, and the pack needs the wolf.
Ecce Homo Superior
I thought the point was that this was specifically a Japanese trope (obviously, that would include all Japanese culture, not just Anime & Manga), because of Japan's history with nuclear weapons. I may be wrong.

(Also, I'd like to change the tag to "Nuclear Description".)
(it's David Bowie)
 3 Deboss, Tue, 27th Mar '12 6:09:35 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I had the same impression as the Doktor. Due to a cultural taboo, Japan will use something similar to a nuke, but it's most emphatically not a nuke.
Cure Candy
[up] Yep some times its as clear as day like Zettai Karen Children's "Neo-clear bomb" (seriously)

When an actual Japanese work uses The Bomb somewhere it is usually very bad or An Aesop based for even bring them up in conversation, Aversions to this are very notable like Gundam 0083 and the make a big deal out of it.

edited 27th Mar '12 6:20:04 AM by Raso

This may need a minor tweak here and there to deemphises Anime and Manga, given that there is more to Japanese media than these two mediums, but this is very much a Japanese thing.

edited 27th Mar '12 6:48:46 AM by Catbert

 6 shimaspawn, Tue, 27th Mar '12 7:21:54 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Agreed, this is a Japanese cultural trope. It should stay that. Broadened a bit to Japanese media in general rather than just anime and manga, but that's a minor tweak.

I tweaked the first paragraph to make it less anime and manga centred.

edited 27th Mar '12 7:27:57 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
I modified it again because we are well past the generations were all or even most Japanese media creators and consumers have personally experienced World War II. The page implied that pretty much every Japanese writer right now is 70+ years old, which of course isn't true.

 8 Deboss, Wed, 28th Mar '12 2:41:22 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I'd say the main exceptions come about when there's a War Is Hell message and they're shooting for that. For instance, Evangelion used this, but Gundam didn't, so I'm inclined to say that it depends on what the work is trying to do with it.
Cure Candy
[up] Gundam's use of Nukes varies massively however it always plays the
"Any series that does decide to use nuclear weapons will usually portray them as A Bad Thing that must be destroyed at all costs, and only used by the most evil of villains."
aspect of this trope to the letter. with only 1 exception anyone who uses them are Monsters

  • The original Gundam they used at the start of the One Year War and wiped out half of earth's population and were banned from use by treaty after that.
  • Gundam0083: The fact that a nuke is loose in the world is the whole first 2/3rds of the plot and they never shut up about Nukes Are Bad even leaving them in storage is bad.
  • Gundam Wing: Lady Une tries detonating some nukes to blow up the Gundams in California every one even her boss treats this as going far far too far. (the English version "ICBM" is removed oddly.)
  • Gundam SEED the use of one starts a war, anyone who even thinks about using one is an instant Complete Monster by everyone in the series. Zaft deploys N Jammers which stop a Nuclear reaction in S1 making them useless, then later a gun that makes nukes go off early. (which blew up a fleet had intended to use them.)
  • Gundam 00 Removes any mention of Nuclear anything even Nuclear power even though the world was in an energy crisis as Fossil fuels ran out and only those who built the Orbital Elevators have access to solar power.
  • The Only time someone good uses a nuke is ∀ Gundam and Loren uses some to blow up a falling empty colony. (with a Why Am I Ticking? nearly every time he got into his Gundam with a nuke in his storage compartment.)
    • However the An Asope was when they dug them up originally that pretty much came off like "After the End these things can still be found by idiots who don't know how to handle them which lead to a rather important character dying because they didn't know wtf a nuke was." with Loren being the only one who had an idea of what they found trying to stop them from toying with them. (then later trying and failing to find a way to get rid of them)

edited 28th Mar '12 5:53:03 AM by Raso

 10 Ookamikun, Thu, 29th Mar '12 9:14:36 AM from the lupine den
Wolves, wolves, wolves!
Ah, so essentially it's a Japanese trope then? I always wondered if cartoons went here, since the only time I recall nukes being referred to is Justice League.
Lone wolf? Hah! "Lone" wolves die out of hunger and loneliness. The wolf needs the pack, and the pack needs the wolf.
 11 Archereon, Thu, 29th Mar '12 10:54:34 AM from Everywhere.
Ave Imperator
I actually see replacement nukes or their conspicuous absence in many kids shows and media that aren't Japanese. I say change the description to make it more universal, and note that in Japanese media, nukes are unlikely to appear even in more "mature" works, whereas America is pretty nukr happy once you pass PG.
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 12 shimaspawn, Sat, 31st Mar '12 7:14:51 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
The Western kids shows that don't have nukes don't have guns or any of a number of other weapons. The nukes are just caught in a larger idea of toning down the violence level. It's the same end result, but not the same trope. The Western one is farther ranging.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 13 Archereon, Sat, 31st Mar '12 8:38:31 AM from Everywhere.
Ave Imperator
[up] Then we need to rewrite family friendly firearms to include substitute nukes or their conspicuous absence...Which will result in a ton of anime examples being indexed there when they should be here.

I think enough Western works (though generally works aimed for children) do the kind of things this trope talks about (Avoiding any mention of nukes or, in the very rare case they appear or a substitute appears, they are trested as a really bad, villainous thing.) that the examples should stay; just note in the description that Western works tend to do this solely in media for younger viewers.

I can recall a few examples of western shows with guns and WM Ds that aren't nukes...Generator Rex, I think Justice league did the "nukes as a really bad thing" spin on it, I think some of the batman series had (admittedly downplayed) guns and enough doomsday plots from villains that never involved nukes...Plus, the whole: family friendly doomsday device is kinda an example of this trope in and of itself.

edited 31st Mar '12 8:42:57 AM by Archereon

This is a signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
 14 Native Jovian, Sat, 31st Mar '12 12:15:16 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
I think we need to clarify the focus of the trope a bit. Nuclear Weapons Taboo, as currently written, is basically "Suspiciously Specific Denial where nuke-like weapons are used but are explicitly said to be something other than nukes". That's fine. But "nukes are never mentioned at all" and "nukes are there, but they're zomg teh evil" is also worked in there, and those seem like separate things. I'm not sure that "nukes aren't mentioned" is tropeworthy, but I definitely think Nukes Are Bad is something worth splitting off (and not at all restricted to Japanese media).

edited 31st Mar '12 12:15:38 PM by NativeJovian

 15 Deboss, Sun, 1st Apr '12 8:23:43 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I think post twelve is Where Did They Get Lasers. Wait, I think that was renamed to Family-Friendly Firearms.
 16 Ookamikun, Tue, 10th Apr '12 9:51:00 AM from the lupine den
Wolves, wolves, wolves!
[up][up]Yeah, Nukes Are Bad seems to be more of its own trope instead of being part of "this are nukes but we don't mention them".
Lone wolf? Hah! "Lone" wolves die out of hunger and loneliness. The wolf needs the pack, and the pack needs the wolf.
 17 Septimus Heap, Wed, 9th May '12 1:43:22 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Bumping. Two thoughts:
  1. If this is a mostly Japanese trope, a Japanese name migth be warranted.
  2. Native Jovian's split proposal sounds good.

 18 Septimus Heap, Fri, 25th May '12 2:40:08 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Bumpity to get opinions about [up].

 19 Septimus Heap, Sun, 27th May '12 1:45:05 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Also, is this trope Japan-specific or not? Because if not, the first paragraph might need to be moved downward.

 20 Clarste, Sun, 27th May '12 3:02:23 PM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
There's no way we could use a Japanese name because the Japanese words for this aren't the kind of thing even fans of Japanese works would be expected to know. Especially because, you know, they don't say the word "nuclear weapon" very often in Japanese works, due to this trope.

 21 ccoa, Thu, 12th Jul '12 1:57:25 PM from the Sleeping Giant
With Mod Hat On
Clocking due to lack of activity.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 22 Spark 9, Thu, 12th Jul '12 3:36:26 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
I see no compelling reason to change this to a Japanese name. Yes, it's a Japanese cultural trope, but this is still an English wiki.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
I don't think the name has to be changed just because it has some overlap with Japanese culture.
"@[=g3,8d]&fbb=-q]/hk%fg"
 24 nrjxll, Thu, 12th Jul '12 3:42:01 PM Relationship Status: Not war
If this is a mostly Japanese trope, a Japanese name migth be warranted.

...You're kidding, right?

 25 ccoa, Mon, 23rd Jul '12 8:53:43 AM from the Sleeping Giant
With Mod Hat On
Locking.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
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Total posts: 25
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