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Not Tropeworthy NEW CROWNER 12/01/2012: Capulet Counterpart get usage counts

What needs to be done:

Check the wicks.
  • Examples that do not involve changing sides because of love need to be removed or moved to High Heel-Face Turn.
  • Proper examples need to be changed to Defecting for Love, with proper alphabetisation.
  • The main page needs cleaning up.

edited 1st Feb '13 3:04:09 AM by lu127

What needs to be done:

Check the wicks.
  • Examples that do not involve changing sides because of love need to be removed or moved to High Heel-Face Turn.
  • Proper examples need to be changed to Defecting for Love, with proper alphabetisation.
  • The main page needs cleaning up.

edited 1st Feb '13 3:04:09 AM by lu127

someone
Well, the Image Pickin' thread shows that there's of confusion over what actually counts as this. Maybe it is too vaguely-defined as it is.
something
The consensus in the Image Pickin' thread seems to be that Juliet isn't an example...which would make the trope due for a rename as well since the Capulet family association falls flat (and while they're technically the antagonists of the play, both families are morally gray to some extent). Just one more thing wrong with this trope.

 4 Deboss, Thu, 22nd Mar '12 2:24:56 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Isn't that just a more specific version of High Heel-Face Turn?
someone
[up] Well HHFT is about when a villainous group has only one woman, and that woman is the one to switch sides. This one doesn't require the character being the only member of her gender.
something
I think this is tropeworthy, but the name is pretty bad given that the Trope Namer really isn't an example.

[up][up] So it's High Heel-Face Turn only less specific?
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
Fallen Paladin
[up][up]I'm with you on this. It should probably be a trope (or maybe merged with High Heel-Face Turn), but the name is bad in every possible way. (The Capulets vs. Montagues was never a good vs. evil fight, and the "counterpart" bit makes me think of "character who has the same role but on the opposite side", not necessarily a love interest.)
You always take us with you when you go
 9 lu 127, Thu, 22nd Mar '12 8:38:54 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
I reeeally find this redundant to High Heel-Face Turn.
何も恐れる事わ無い
I didn't see it as "High Heel Face Turn except less specific" so much as "Heel Face Turn + Love Redeems except more specific." A trope must be more than the sum of its parts and I'm not really seeing that here.

The only thing I can see here is the general Double Standard that women are too kind/gentle/passive/weak/useless to be "true" villains which gives rise to tropes like High Heel Face Turn and this (I believe there's a blurb on it somewhere in Gender Dynamics), but I'm not sure if that alone makes Capulet Counterpart tropable.

Maybe we expand High Heel Face Turn to cover a general, somewhat subtler tendency for female villains to be less evil at heart and pull Heel Face Turns (often out of love for The Hero), similar to the Never a Self-Made Woman page. Thoughts?

edited 22nd Mar '12 10:25:31 AM by Waafu

I think the alleged difference is that the Capulet Counterpart is not herself a "heel", just on that "team". Heel-Face Turn and High Heel-Face Turn are explicitly about villains.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
 12 lebrel, Thu, 22nd Mar '12 11:26:24 AM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
[up] I think that's it. Both the description and the laconic state that s/he starts off "not evil".
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
It doesn't bug me
As I see it, High Heel-Face Turn is about how females are more likely to pull a Heel-Face Turn, and this trope is really more Heel-Face Turn + Love Redeems except there isn't necessarily much redemption to it since the Capulet Counterpart is often a Punch Clock Villain.

Edit:[up][up]Yeah, what he said.

I'd support a rename though, since the trope namer is hardly an example.

edited 23rd Mar '12 2:17:45 AM by Godnat

 14 Deboss, Thu, 22nd Mar '12 8:20:01 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Ah, that makes it different then.
Thanks for the clarification, everyone. I think I can agree now that the trope is more than the sum of its parts (love causes the character to see that she was on the wrong side all along), and Switching Sides For Love sounds like a good rename.

 17 ccoa, Mon, 26th Mar '12 12:41:58 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Hmm, do we have a trope for when the hero is in love with an antagonist, but they don't necessarily switch sides?

Because I've seen lots of characters squeezed in under this trope for that.

edited 26th Mar '12 12:42:37 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 18 Deboss, Mon, 26th Mar '12 1:04:53 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Dating Catwoman?
[up][up] That's just misuse of the trope, probably caused by the godawful trope name. As stated in [up], we have Dating Catwoman for clear-cut heroes and villains having romantic relationships/subtext, and we have Love Redeems for clear-cut villains changing their ways after falling in love.

Fallen Paladin
I like Switching Sides For Love.
You always take us with you when you go
Should I make a crowner?

Mage of Temperature
Agreed, the crowner needs to be made.
Creepypasta is the only pasta I shall eat
 23 ccoa, Wed, 16th May '12 3:07:51 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Crowner pasted to thread.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 24 ccoa, Thu, 31st May '12 9:25:53 AM from the Sleeping Giant
With Mod Hat On
Calling crowner in favor of renaming.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 25 ccoa, Mon, 16th Jul '12 7:15:46 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
We have consensus to rename and have determined this to be a trope and distinct from High Heel-Face Turn. The only name suggestion thus far is Switching Sides For Love. Can we brainstorm a few more?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Alternative Titles: Capulet Counterpart
1st Dec '12 1:02:13 PM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
At issue:
Total posts: 55
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