SPOON, FoRKS and related cutlery:

Total posts: [143]
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26 SeptimusHeap22nd Mar 2012 06:08:47 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Trimming is absolutely needed here. Cutting only if someone can say why it's better than trimming and/or other measures.
In uffish thought
I don't think they should be cut. However, if the member list was made into just names with no comments, they were all moved to the same namespace, and the descriptions were cleaned up then that would make them – especially Fo RKS – a lot better. It seems like Fo RKS is the only one that's attracted the negativity and personal attacks, possibly because it's furthest from site policy, is on Darth Wiki, attracts people who are devoted fans of particular things, and is better known that CHOPSTICKS.
I think I'm starting to warm up to Fighteer's suggestion in his(?) first post. The history page shows that the bile I posted in my OP is a very recent addition, not even ten days old. Eddie nuked some of it, but I fear the pages may just be nastiness magnets at the moment.

Basically, I think they should be purged of the vitriol and archived, but not nuked.
What goes around, comes around
what goes up, must come down
29 SeptimusHeap22nd Mar 2012 07:32:00 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Kill the vitriol, Just for Fun or Darth Wiki it, and then cut the main pages. The latter is to prevent fights (e.g SPOON vs FORKS in a TRS thread) from spreading along the links and redirects to the pages and to emphasize that they are just for fun organizations, not political parties.
30 robster200122nd Mar 2012 08:48:11 AM from Richmond, VA , Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Occasional Editor
As always, the operating question should be "do the pages fit the purpose of the wiki"?

They certainly don't fit the purpose of the Main namespace, so I think it's a no-brainer that any of the cutlery pages that are in Main need to move out.

I suppose, as meta-commentary on the site, a case can be made for the Darthwiki namespace, if there's a belief the pages belong on the wiki side at all...

...but perhaps they don't.

Wouldn't they make more sense as forums? The pages don't catalog anything (other than troper names), and really wouldn't be missed from the wiki — but there's always a value in community, and where better for community than the forums? I'd open up a "Community" section under Just For Fun in the forums, give each cutlery group a thread, and let them have their fun. What would be natter on a wiki page becomes ordinary discussion on a forum, right?

I guess what I'm saying is that instead of trying to make the community (cutlery) groups fit the wiki, put them where they fit better.
I am not a mod, and I don't play one on TV.
31 SeptimusHeap22nd Mar 2012 08:54:02 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
That could be an idea, but I don't see any problem for such things being on the Wiki (not in /Main/, however) either.

Bringing them to the forums...I think that they would become sort-of interest groups/lobbies then, if given their own discussion platforms. And that would be a bad thing, given how controversial these issues are.
I would rather not bring them in the forums, especially given the fact that apparently, an anti-forum attitude exists out there.

But the question is how we keep the bitching off without getting "those tyrannical bastards!" reactions.

edited 22nd Mar '12 8:56:35 AM by lu127

What goes around, comes around
what goes up, must come down
33 Fighteer22nd Mar 2012 09:02:31 AM from the Time Vortex , Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
We always get accused of tyranny when we cut bitchiness. That is par for the course and entirely expected. I don't see that codifying divisive political splits among the troper body by giving them dedicated forum threads is going to help.
34 DrStarky22nd Mar 2012 09:03:22 AM from Corn And Pig Land , Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
[up][up][up]I think that bringing them to the forums will make things a little worse. Rename debates can get really ugly here and we don't need more factionalism.

I think we should strip the member lists and lock them. If people want to list their affiliations they can do so on their own page.

I wouldn't mind if they were cut either but I think a lock will suffice.

edited 22nd Mar '12 9:03:37 AM by DrStarky

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
35 PPPSSC22nd Mar 2012 09:16:02 AM from Washington State , Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
GT/GM Entry Pimp and Curator
Posting my support for trimming the commentary and putting the descriptions of all the cutlery factions on one page in Just for Fun or Darth Wiki. The descriptions are really the only part of those pages that are fun to read anyway. I don't particularly care if the member names stay or go.
I love Woobies. I don't want The Woobie to become Better Off Than He Sounds.
36 Madrugada22nd Mar 2012 09:22:09 AM , Relationship Status: In season
I support clear-cutting the commentary, consolidating them on one Just for Fun Wiki Cutlery Associations page, and making that page contain only the name, the expanded acronym, a brief statement of the position, and the list of members.

They worked ok as ways to goof around, back in the old days, when the user base was smaller and more closely-knit, and most everyone knew that they weren't intended to be taken seriously. They don't anymore because those factors are no longer present.

edited 22nd Mar '12 9:22:22 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
37 Spark922nd Mar 2012 09:42:07 AM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
[up] I agree with that.

And, well, dividing the wiki users into factions that oppose each other is not a productive attitude.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
Being one of the (failed) meddlers of this discussion in the ATT page, I didn't imagine it would complicate too far.

I'll go with whatever decision it's taken, since it's no real use to bring in suggestions at this point anymore. =/
39 Madrugada22nd Mar 2012 12:16:06 PM , Relationship Status: In season
^If you have a different suggestion, please do bring it up, and explain why you think it would work.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
40 TuefelHundenIV22nd Mar 2012 06:14:04 PM from Wandering. , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Maddy: At your previous post is a better reason to cut or archive them. Leaving something only causes conflict and is not necessary for the function of the wiki can still bring trouble.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
41 32_Footsteps23rd Mar 2012 01:02:39 PM from Just north of Arkham , Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
Huh... we actually have a trope for this. Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things.
Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
[up] Indeed.

Do we have permission to purge the FORKS vitriol? Unless we cut those pages, the bitching will have to leave.
What goes around, comes around
what goes up, must come down
43 SeptimusHeap23rd Mar 2012 02:03:09 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Please yes. They're almost personal attacks.
In uffish thought
Every comment, or just the particularly agressive/rude/whathaveyou ones?
I'd suggest just the ones that are rude, if you cut them all without a decision on cutting the whole thing then it'll just increase the ill-feeling they are expressing.
I think we need to make it clear that critiques of the wiki are welcome in the forums, but not in the wiki pages. Any of the wiki pages. In other words, the wiki pages are about tropes and works, not about the wiki itself.
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

47 SeptimusHeap23rd Mar 2012 02:32:22 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
[up]Just for Fun and Administrivia should probably stay, but all the bile in the cutlery pages can safely be killed. And yes, criticism of the wiki should stay in Wiki Talk.

Better leave these pages as opinionfree articles in Darth Wiki or Just for Fun and treat them like Wall Banger/Dethroning Moment of Suck.

I am not excited at bringing these things to the forums, though - they are about far too polarizing topics.
Some of them are just plain inaccurate, like this:

And now they changed Heroic Sociopath due to "trope decay"? Seriously, how are they any different from George Lucas!!!??

This is a page on naming conventions, not splits and other related actions. It's come to the point where it's whining about anything tangentially related.
What goes around, comes around
what goes up, must come down
Can this thread be on Wiki Headlines? Somewhate important, since it affects multiple pages.
50 SeptimusHeap23rd Mar 2012 03:14:18 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Holler for that, although I have my doubts that it will be immediate* or necessary.

Wiki Development: Cutlery Factions Pages
27th Mar '12 8:10:28 AM
At issue:
Some of the cutlery pages have been shown to attract vitriol. What would be the best way to fix this?

Note: Not all options below are mutually exclusive, but some are. Please exercise judgment

Total posts: 143
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