I don't think they should be cut. However, if the member list was made into just names with no comments, they were all moved to the same namespace, and the descriptions were cleaned up then that would make them – especially Fo RKS – a lot better. It seems like Fo RKS is the only one that's attracted the negativity and personal attacks, possibly because it's furthest from site policy, is on Darth Wiki, attracts people who are devoted fans of particular things, and is better known that CHOPSTICKS.
I think I'm starting to warm up to Fighteer's suggestion in his(?) first post. The history page shows that the bile I posted in my OP is a very recent addition, not even ten days old. Eddie nuked some of it, but I fear the pages may just be nastiness magnets at the moment.
Basically, I think they should be purged of the vitriol and archived, but not nuked.
As always, the operating question should be "do the pages fit the purpose of the wiki"?
They certainly don't fit the purpose of the Main namespace, so I think it's a no-brainer that any of the cutlery pages that are in Main need to move out.
I suppose, as meta-commentary on the site, a case can be made for the Darthwiki namespace, if there's a belief the pages belong on the wiki side at all...
...but perhaps they don't.
Wouldn't they make more sense as forums? The pages don't catalog anything (other than troper names), and really wouldn't be missed from the wiki — but there's always a value in community, and where better for community than the forums? I'd open up a "Community" section under Just For Fun in the forums, give each cutlery group a thread, and let them have their fun. What would be natter on a wiki page becomes ordinary discussion on a forum, right?
I guess what I'm saying is that instead of trying to make the community (cutlery) groups fit the wiki, put them where they fit better.
That could be an idea, but I don't see any problem for such things being on the Wiki (not in /Main/, however) either.
Bringing them to the forums...I think that they would become sort-of interest groups/lobbies then, if given their own discussion platforms. And that would be a bad thing, given how controversial these issues are.
I would rather not bring them in the forums, especially given the fact that apparently, an anti-forum attitude exists out there.
But the question is how we keep the bitching off without getting "those tyrannical bastards!" reactions.
We always get accused of tyranny when we cut bitchiness. That is par for the course and entirely expected. I don't see that codifying divisive political splits among the troper body by giving them dedicated forum threads is going to help.
I think that bringing them to the forums will make things a little worse. Rename debates can get really ugly here and we don't need more factionalism.
I think we should strip the member lists and lock them. If people want to list their affiliations they can do so on their own page.
I wouldn't mind if they were cut either but I think a lock will suffice.
edited 22nd Mar '12 9:03:37 AM by DrStarky
Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
Posting my support for trimming the commentary and putting the descriptions of all the cutlery factions on one page in Just for Fun or Darth Wiki. The descriptions are really the only part of those pages that are fun to read anyway. I don't particularly care if the member names stay or go.
I support clear-cutting the commentary, consolidating them on one Just for FunWiki Cutlery Associations page, and making that page contain only the name, the expanded acronym, a brief statement of the position, and the list of members.
They worked ok as ways to goof around, back in the old days, when the user base was smaller and more closely-knit, and most everyone knew that they weren't intended to be taken seriously. They don't anymore because those factors are no longer present.
edited 22nd Mar '12 9:22:22 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Being one of the (failed) meddlers of this discussion in the ATT page, I didn't imagine it would complicate too far.
I'll go with whatever decision it's taken, since it's no real use to bring in suggestions at this point anymore. =/
I think we need to make it clear that critiques of the wiki are welcome in the forums, but not in the wiki pages. Any of the wiki pages. In other words, the wiki pages are about tropes and works, not about the wiki itself.
Just for Fun and Administrivia should probably stay, but all the bile in the cutlery pages can safely be killed. And yes, criticism of the wiki should stay in Wiki Talk.
Better leave these pages as opinionfree articles in Darth Wiki or Just for Fun and treat them like Wall Banger/Dethroning Moment of Suck.
I am not excited at bringing these things to the forums, though - they are about far too polarizing topics.
Holler for that, although I have my doubts that it will be immediate*
A few hollers of mine awaiting response
Wiki Development: Cutlery Factions Pages
27th Mar '12 8:10:28 AM
Some of the cutlery pages have been shown to attract vitriol. What would be the best way to fix this?
Note: Not all options below are mutually exclusive, but some are. Please exercise judgment
44 (yeas:54 nays:10) 5.40 : 1
Consolidate all cutlery factions in a single Just For Fun page containing only the name, the expanded acronym, a brief statement of the position. (No member list) Essentially, redirect the names to the TABLE page.
9 (yeas:36 nays:27) 1.33 : 1
Consolidate all cutlery factions in a single Just for Fun page containing only the name, the expanded acronym, a brief statement of the position, and the list of members — names only, no commentary.