Needs Help: Eldritch Abomination

Deadlock Clock: 13th Jul 2012 11:59:00 PM
Total posts: [176]
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Escher: Actually, even if you wanted to argue that revealing information about the Reapers made them less and less eldritch, they still fit the trope; you just have to phrase it right:

Reapers are treated as Eldritch Abominations in the first Mass Effect game; in the sequels they seem to be "merely" Sufficiently Advanced Aliens.
Totally nailed it.
Maybe we could use a Special Efforts thread to clean up the really bad examples, but when it comes to things that only-half fit, all we need to do is write that they only half fit. We don't need a strict set of guidelines for what does and doesn't count.

edited 11th Jul '12 5:47:23 PM by abk0100

152 Cider27th Aug 2012 03:56:41 PM from Not New York , Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
800 wicks down, 1000 and 91 to go! And when that's done we can delete that stupid, misleading, unnecessary redirect.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
If this is down to just wick cleanup, then you should ask the mods to give it the Pending Final Action icon and change the thread name to Wick Cleanup.
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
154 Xtifr30th Aug 2012 11:07:22 PM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Waitaminnit! I'm not seeing any consensus to do anything here. The top option in the crowner is at 20:14, which is well short of 2:1.
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
155 SeptimusHeap31st Aug 2012 08:08:47 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
There is no cleanup option on the crowner.
156 nrjxll31st Aug 2012 12:23:52 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
How is a cleanup even possible? No one can agree on the definition, or at least that's the impression I get.
There is no consensus for any action here.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Some good wicks are being deleted as well rather than being redirected properly.
159 Cider31st Aug 2012 05:53:47 PM from Not New York , Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
"Do you feel like removing all the wicks to that redirect?"(I don't but since nobody else is doing it). Those two arguments, the last one from moderation) is why I've been removing redirect wicks.

Renaming, splitting, I've noticed but haven't been interested in because removing has taken up any interest I can really give the topic. "Cosmic Horror" has none of those outbound links people love to use in defense of wrong wording and Eldritch Abomination will still have 7000 links and will still have 14,000 outbounds once its gone.

The difference is, cosmic horror is a genre, and eldritch abomination is a monster. Public Medium Ignorance aside they really shouldn't link to the same place. Cosmic horror stories can be written without any eldritch abominations in them and the monsters can show up in virtually any genre, its silly to leave them that attached to one type of horror story. If someone wants to help I'll gladly join the other discussions related to the topic when this is finished.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
We don't care about outbound links (except when they violate the Weblinks Are Not Examples guidelines), only inbound links. Inbound links for redirects are counted for the main page, so we can't track the external traffic they're getting.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
161 nrjxll31st Aug 2012 06:35:42 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
No, seriously, what the heck does this "wick cleanup" actually involve? It's not an option on the crowner and nobody seems to have a clear idea what an Eldritch Abomination actually is in the first place (though there seems to be general consensus - at least from the people posting in the thread - that the current definition is too restrictive), so I can't tell what wicks should be changed and what they'd be changed to.

edited 31st Aug '12 6:36:22 PM by nrjxll

162 Cider31st Aug 2012 06:51:12 PM from Not New York , Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
Its not just down to wick cleanup, if that's what you're asking. Moderation has simply said Cosmic Horror's axing as a redirect is not up for discussion until its 800+ wicks have been changed to something else or removed.

As for the definition? It's really not that complicated, the page itself is too long as it is. Eldritch:Weird, eerie, not easy to define/defies categorizing(and) abomination: horrible, worthy of hate or scorn.

I'll elaborate further when I'm done with what I started. but(edit), its probably disqualified from being an eldritch if the characters not in league with it/equal to it/under its control still fully understand it with no damage to their psyche. If it comes in a familiar form by default(humanoids are pretty much out unless the characters themselves are not humanoid), or its extremely common to the point it can be frequently encountered without consequence. Also, it has to be unpleasant in some way(abomination), even if its only a perceived problem.

edited 31st Aug '12 7:23:46 PM by Cider

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
We have an actual crowner that failed to reach a consensus on that. I wouldn't go hacking and slashing if I were you. tongue
Rhymes with "Protracted."
164 Cider31st Aug 2012 10:32:23 PM from Not New York , Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
Well, my 'hacking and slashing' is unrelated to the crowner and most of the thread's dicussion. I'm not editing based on what stated I think the definition should be, just on what the page currently says.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
I haven't read the whole topic, but please be mindful, some valid wicks are being outright removed.
166 SeptimusHeap1st Sep 2012 10:57:31 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
"Cleanup" was never on the crowner and is thus not an option that failed to get consensus. I am sure it was discussed earlier and never really contradicted.
But should we be doing cleanup when we don't even know for sure if we have the proper definition?
168 IndirectActiveTransport2nd Sep 2012 07:22:49 PM from Chicago , Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
You Give Me Fever
Is this still going on? As madrugada said, the cosmic horror title was changed due to misuse. This wasn't choosing something more indicative over something more clear, it was changing something that was wrong. Unless your referencing that trading card game that Did Not Do The Research, every single instance where cosmic horror goes to eldritch abomination is incorrect! It's been two years, why is this still the case?

If there is an argument to be had, it should be whether Cosmic Horror should be deleted(already proposed) or whether cosmic horror should redirect to Cosmic Horror Story instead of Eldritch Abomination. Shouldn't even be in the repair shop, it should be on special efforts. Well, some people have argued over whether the definition needs fixing and all that and the crowner over it ha no consensus I see so it doesn't need to be in the repair shop anymore. Cosmic horror has to either be cut or become the a different redirect to another trope. Eldritch Abomination was launched to stop people from calling this type of monster a "cosmic horror" in the first place, an elephant some people seem to be overlooking.

We still classify Star Trek and Star Wars as science fiction despite believers of the Sci-Fi Ghetto say they aren't right?
That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes
169 Noaqiyeum27th Sep 2012 09:24:41 PM from the October Country , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
For some reason this thread stopped appearing on my watchlist without me removing it. o_O Let me catch up...
Anyone who looks dangerous is dangerous.

Anyone who doesn't look dangerous is dangerous and sneaky.
170 Madrugada27th Sep 2012 09:39:07 PM , Relationship Status: In season
You've got it entirely backwards, Indirect. Cosmic Horror was made a redirect to Eldritch Abomination because the vast majority of the wick (80% of about 800 at that time) were using it as a noun, referring to the creatures, (frex, "He was attacked by a Cosmic Horror" or "The <fitb> are Cosmic Horrors capable of consuming all life on a planet in a matter of hours.") rather than as the name of the genre. We are not going to change it back.

Eldritch Abomination may have been made to try to draw a distinction between the creatures and the genre, but it simply didn't work. The decision to rename the genre page was most assuredly not made casually or without a great deal of discussion and searching for some other solution.

edited 27th Sep '12 9:41:07 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
171 nrjxll27th Sep 2012 09:42:56 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
I thought Cosmic Horror, as a redirect, was being completely removed to just leave Eldritch Abomination for the creature and Cosmic Horror Story for the genre.
No, there's no consensus to do that. Why would we do that, anyway?
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Has there been a consensus on any action here? I see the crowner closed with the leading option below 2:1.
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
174 nrjxll27th Nov 2012 09:00:51 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
I'm not even convinced there's a problem in the first place.
[up] Neither am I.

There's no consensus for any action.
Rhymes with "Protracted."

Page Action: Eldritch Abomination
30th Mar '12 6:40:05 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
What to do with Eldritch Abomination.

Total posts: 176
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