Needs Help: The Quincy Punk

I must say the heading text of The Quincy Punk confuses me. This is definitely a trope, but I think there's actually two or three different tropes that are mixed up in the same page. Alternatively, it may simply be that the examples are wrong. I would like some opinions on cleaning this up and/or splitting it into multiple tropes.

On the page itself, we have:

(1) People who look like punks but behave friendly: Chips Ahoy, Liar Game, Bad Kids, Maniac Mansion, Teen Wolf

(2) People who look like punks and are a murderous gang: Fist Of The North Star, Doomsday

(3) Hollywood attempts to give insight into punk subculture but gets it wrong: Batman, Quincy, House, News Radio

(4) Stereotypical angry and destructive punkers: Terminator, The Road Warrior, Star Trek, Pax Brittania, CHIPS, Power Rangers, The Young Ones

And some X Just X thrown in for good measure. So what exactly is this trope supposed to be?

I think that this trope is suffering from Missing Supertrope Syndrome. We don't have a general trope for the Punk archetype and as a result people are just shoving everything in the trope that does exist.

Points 3 & 4 are supposed to go hand-in-hand in defining The Quincy Punk.

In broad terms, the trope is about how media presents the punk subculture (especially around the late 70s, early 80s), and how that's done usually boils down to wildly angry, destructive, and nihilistic characters in "punk clothes".

There really isn't much of a "general Punk archetype" in media—only a handful of stereotypes based on fashion and attitude.

edited 20th Mar '12 8:29:19 PM by SeanMurrayI

So is this trope something like Hollywood Punk?

(I don't think the name is very good, either. It's a reference to a specific TV show and pretty opaque.)

I think so, yeah, with some different punk tropes thrown in incorrectly.

Missing Supertrope Syndrome indeed. I suggest we widen the trope, distribute the flavours as internal subtropes/type A, B, stc., then categorise the examples accordingly.

edited 21st Mar '12 3:11:37 AM by Catalogue

Agree. We definitely need a Punk supertrope (just like we have a Goth one).

Even the Goth supertrope is largely shaped by stereotypes about the subculture's attitude and fashion.

If punk should have a supertrope, it would mostly be based on the stereotypes that The Quincy Punk is supposed to be highlighting, anyway.

Also, despite The Quincy Punk taking its name from a TV show, it's a pre-existing term. The punk episode of Quincy ME quickly became so notorious for its depiction of the subculture that it spawned the term "Quincy Punk" to refer to kids who latch onto the subculture just to be violent and nihilistic, or otherwise act like the idiots depicted in the episode.

OK. I didn't know it was a pre-existing term.

Attitude and fashion is more than enough for a supertrope.

And, as I said, if you're looking for a supertrope, what's being described on The Quincy Punk already fits the bill, or, at least, comes pretty close.

The only real hole to fill are probably links to The Apunkalypse (which should, roughly, cover the examples in OP's #2). Point #'s 3 and 4 are both what this present page are already supposed to cover, and point #1 includes clear subversions of the established convention, or, at best, an exhibit of Punk Hair And Fashion, if we want to look for a new page to make.

Maybe we can rename this page, but as far as a general page about punk subculture in media and fiction goes, this is pretty much it.

edited 21st Mar '12 1:38:31 PM by SeanMurrayI

Well, then why don't we rename it so it sounds like the general supertrope instead of a specific subtrope of nihilistic punk? Make it obvious that this is the Punk supertrope.

edited 21st Mar '12 2:11:45 PM by shimaspawn

Like I've been saying, any real punk supertrope is going to be based on general, recurring stereotypes in the media, and the set of stereotypes (no respect for authority or good nature, violent rebel, nihilist, etc.) that define punks in media have a pre-existing term—"Quincy Punk".

Though, in truth, I don't really care that much about the name. I just don't think it should be changed to just Punk when I feel it may be possible to convey underlying, prevalent attitudes that are a part of the basic concept we're examining.

What is important to note though is that punks in media is very much a trend in the late 70s, early 80s (when punk was actually a thing), but punks haven't really been seen much since, except period pieces taking place in the 70's and 80s(which would also touch upon these themes, or, at least, people's presumptions of these attitudes being inherent in punk characters). Outside of that, it's not much more than just a Stock Fashion to make bad guys look... well, bad*

edited 21st Mar '12 3:00:45 PM by SeanMurrayI

It's also a much less nihilistic teen rebel look. Mostly because they're too shallow to be nihilistic. And there's skater punks that show up in certain forms of media as well.

edited 21st Mar '12 3:05:10 PM by shimaspawn

I'm listing nihilism as one of several traits exhibited by punk characters in media that are already covered on this page. Nihilism does not have to be the single most important characteristic to this trope; most existing examples (at least, the ones that aren't just The Apunkalypse) on this page already don't even have much to do with nihilism, instead emphasizing a rebellious (if not lawless) attitude that runs a wide gamut (just like the nihilist characteristics) from being comically misplaced (at best) to being disorderly or outright violent (at worst) or somewhere in between.

And, besides, skaters aren't punks; there just surfers on wheeled boards who listen to soundtracks to Tony Hawk games. Even then, doesn't environmental destruction, mischief, and mayhem play a significant role in Tony Hawk games, and aren't police and other societal authority figures often made antagonists to be abused or humiliated? It's been a long while since I've played any of those games, but I'm sure we'd find a few connections to at least some of the multiple themes already intended to be covered there.

edited 21st Mar '12 5:00:59 PM by SeanMurrayI

Weirdly Skate Punk doesn't have as much to do with skateboarding as you'd think. It's more a musical philosophy and a style of dress. It was popular in skating videos which is where the name comes from, but more Skate Punks don't skate.

Can we have some evidence for the assertion that this is a pre-existing term? Because Google and That Other Wiki suggest that it's really not.

Isn't the Super-Trope The New Rock & Roll, aka a genre of music creating a violent and delinquent subculture?

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