The 11th GroverWell, technically, the Chocobo and Moogle examples from Final Fantasy aren't examples, since the former are almost never enemies (and they were used for mascots before the few examples that were enemies), and the latter have never been enemies. So I'd posit that neither count as mooks, even under the rather broad definition of the page. As for why to overhaul everything at once... I figured that, if we are going to do cleanup on the page, why not just take care of everything at once? Why put off for tomorrow what we can take care of now?
Okay, I propose renaming this page to something like Mascot Race, and splitting off a separate page for Recurring Enemy Race or Recurring Mook or whatever, for all those creatures on this page that aren't actually used as mascots by the owning company. After all, there's a wide difference between a creature that some troper likes, and a creature that the company sells plush toys of.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
That might be a good idea. It solves the problem of splitting hairs over what's a mook.
Ravenous SophovoreI suggest we put it off because renaming is the second most drastic repair we can effect on a page, and it shouldn't be treated lightly. We should never rename something unless the name itself is causing significant misuse. As to your examples, I'd say chocobos fit - they are both mascot and enemies. Moogles aren't used as a mascot as far as I know, so there's no problem there. Where are all these people splitting hairs over what's a mook? What I see is lots of confusion over what a mascot is. Even in this thread, after explaining it twice, there are posts like that still equating having merchandise about it to being a mascot.
The 11th GroverThe reason that folks are using The Merch to justify calling something a mascot is because of the perception that, by making merchandise out of a strong thematic element, the company in question is making said element into a public representation of what it comes from (also, given that these are frequently company designations, I think your use of "informally" in @25 was off the mark). It's not a case of confusion; it's a case of disagreement. For chocobos and Final Fantasy, I'm not so sure that an established mascot that takes a brief turn as a mook counts for this trope. As for moogles, Square (and later Square Enix) has used them as mascots for both the company and for various parts of the Final Fantasy series (for example, the box art of the American SNES release of Final Fantasy VI).
Right here in this thread, for starters. On the various Mook-related pages, for another.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
Dragon WriterI agree that in Video Games the term "mook" is commonly used for monsters in general — but this is consistent in spirit with the opening line of the page: "Disposable bad guys for the heroes to mow down with impunity." Besides, if we want to go meta on Video Games, the game itself is the player's opponent*, which means that Random Encounters are indeed Mooks to that Big Bad.
Ravenous SophovoreThe moogle on Final Fantasy VI is a specific character, not moogles in general used as a mascot.
The 11th GroverOh, please don't bring up that debate. I dealt with it enough years ago. Besides, it's not the only time that Square/Square Enix used a moogle as a mascot. It's just the one people remember the best.
Ravenous SophovoreWhat debate? Then it's a Mascot, not a Mascot Mook. Why does it need to be shoehorned here?
The 11th GroverI used to be in a bunch of places in the Final Fantasy fandom. Among the petty, stupid arguments that happened is whether or not the moogle on the American box art of Final Fantasy VI was Mog or not. Anyhow, I was pushing to get both moogles and chocobos removed from this trope due to not being mooks anyhow - since you're in agreement with at least moogles, I'll zap them later.
Ravenous SophovoreOkay, so what are we doing here? Are we repurposing this to be a Recurring Signature Mook? Splitting it into Series Mascot Mook and Recurring Signature Mook? Just cleaning up?
With Mod Hat OnExpired clock and stale. Locking.
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