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Sword Art Online:

 751 Rem, Mon, 8th Oct '12 2:00:26 AM Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
By the way, Kirito surviving after he's killed is explained in the anime, so that's an improvement over the LN.

Specifically, I mean the scene where Heathcliff tells Kirito that he's making the fight fair, and the pop-up screen says, "Changed into Immortal Object."

Very clever...that wasn't included in the LN, you know.
Fire, air, water, earth...legend has it that when these four elements are gathered, they will form the fifth element...boron.
 752 probablyinsane, Mon, 8th Oct '12 2:17:35 AM Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
I wish to express my relief that Kirito and Asuna are being referred to as "idealized" characters rather than a Stu/Sue.
Half of a social justice battle is simply convincing people that a problem is real or that a pattern exists. ~Nihonjinron Gakusei
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Mary Sue is a cheap throw-out term for armchair critics to fell like they actually know a bit about character analysis.
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It is an unfortunately characteristic of our kind to slip into the folly of thinking that to act dismissive of something is to be discerning. No, dismissiveness is a facade brandished by those who seek to win by bluster what they cannot by substance. Shamefully, so many seem to have superimposed the sham over the authentic, and in doing so lost the capacity to differentiate between them.

To those, I offer my pity.

edited 8th Oct '12 2:36:43 AM by Savoie

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[up]Okay normally I'm not the type to ask this but do you have that in layman's terms because of 1/2 of that went over my head.
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People who aren't actually intelligent but like to pretend they are will dismiss things out of hand and ever-so-loudly just so they can seem like the kind of wise people who have opinions worth taking note of.

This is the best way to tell which people are unwise and have opinions that aren't worth taking note of.

Note that everyone, to a man, who falls into Hype Backlash is guilty of this, and I am in fact offering a grave insult onto their person by calling them out as the boorish cretins they are.

edited 8th Oct '12 3:29:08 AM by Savoie

@Rem, that was a typo for "Changed into mortal object", which was in the LN. If they were both immortal then it would just make the fight pointless, and wouldn't explain why Kirito took longer than Kayaba.

If you want to know how he did it... watch Accel World. tongue

edited 8th Oct '12 4:50:40 AM by Prime32

 
Neither Asuna or Kirito broke the 10 second rule, because it only starts counting after the declaration of player death and goes on beyond the death animation (blowing up in shards). What Kirito did was to strike Kayaba within the 1 or 2 second animation, which felt longer because of adrenaline time dilation, the basis for the system in Accel world. That scene of him falling was him imagining how it could end.

The one who broke the rules was actually Asuna, by jumping up despite her paralysis condition (something even Kayaba remarks), but even that was foreshadowed way back when she rescued Kirito by running 5 kilometers or so in under 5 minutes, something that's supposed to be impossible due to eve caps.

Kayaba himself felt like a couple exceeding the limits imposed by the system was such an epic ending that he didn't resurrect himself and decided to end the game right there thus sparing Kirito and Asuna within the 10 second rule, as he himself explains.

@Savoie: Personally, I disagree. I feel that if something really doesn't match up to standards, it's perfectly legitimate to dismiss it.

I wouldn't say SAO is bad though. As mentioned by others earlier, it's not a masterpiece, but it's enjoyable. I will, however, say that Kirito really is too close to Gary Stu status. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting the term, but I've always felt Gary Stu simply meant "over-idealized", i.e. the only difference between "idealized" and "Stu" is merely a matter of degree. And I'd feel Kirito treads dangerously close to that line; but I suppose where each person draws the line is a matter of taste.

 760 The Handle, Mon, 8th Oct '12 7:33:18 AM from Location, Location, Loca
[up]It was indeed pretty epic, if a bit anti-climactic.
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 761 Rem, Mon, 8th Oct '12 7:33:38 AM Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
[up][up][up][up] Yes, but that isn't as funny. Besides, Kirito delaying his death through sheer willpower like he's from Gurren Lagann (Complete with similar art shifts and, in the second season, the first season big bad popping in to help fight the big-bad of the current one) makes less sense than Kayaba being a troll and Kirito not having much grasp on the English language.

edited 8th Oct '12 7:34:05 AM by Rem

Fire, air, water, earth...legend has it that when these four elements are gathered, they will form the fifth element...boron.
In honor of my 50lb pup
Unfortunately, labeling him as a Gary Stu will just become easier in the next couple major arcs. They should still be enjoyable, but he starts to fit the description "The Hero with no flaws." He still makes mistakes, it is just that they are more to do with "ignorance" than "capability" (and his "capability" is usually enough to cover for his "ignorance").

If you do end up not liking him/the story from now on, you can just pretend that SAO is a stand-alone series and not be far off the mark. I consider Xanth to only really have 3 books because that is all the author originally planed for.
Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
 763 Oroboro, Mon, 8th Oct '12 8:26:16 AM Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Gamemaster
[up]Yeah... it get's a little silly at times. Especially in GGO. However (LN Spoilers) Even if GGO is the arc with lightsaber bullet cutting shenanigans, I feel that it's the one where Kirito actually gets the most character development, dealing with all the stuff from Laughing Coffin. Shame we won't see it this season.

edited 8th Oct '12 8:26:25 AM by Oroboro

Without love, it cannot be seen. [1]
 764 probablyinsane, Mon, 8th Oct '12 9:15:01 AM Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
Fine by me for other people to label Kirito as a Gary Stu, and that's mainly cause compared to the odds of female characters being labeled Sues - it's like 1/10 male characters are labeled Stus whereas 9/10 female characters are labeled Sues.

—-

Just now, I tried genderbending Kirito and Asuna... I'm not sure why... but I like them more with genders reversed.
Half of a social justice battle is simply convincing people that a problem is real or that a pattern exists. ~Nihonjinron Gakusei
@ashnazg: Ah, that's where we come to the distinction of what it means to dismiss something out-of-hand, and if you provide well-reasoned or sufficiently flexible subjective points detailing why, it can hardly be spoken of as perfunctory.

This also brings us to the point of whether said dismissal is public or private. If you feel that something is simply bad, based on a gut feeling, there's no shame in that. Mind you, however, that this is only applicable is said dismissal is private, or done without the intention of swaying opinion. If you were to proclaim in a critical area something as inane as "this show is bad because I say so, " or even "this show is bad because everyone says it's the best when it clearly isn't, " you have indeed transgressed most direly against the realm of wisdom, good sense, and intelligent discourse.

If you want legitimate criticisms to mull over, look no further than the (generic) "this show is incapable of developing good female characters, " or "this show squanders potential due to technical incompetence." Even then, to stand as a sound critique these points must be properly weighted against other aspects of the work in question, especially those that worked well. That is to say: if you dismiss a show because it has pacing issues while ignoring all other aspects, that criticism is invalid and even your motives may be suspect, depending on the manner and earnestness of its delivery.

 766 L Dragon 2, Mon, 8th Oct '12 12:29:59 PM from Pandora Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ZOMG TEH REI!!!!
[up] Ouch, you cut me deep there.

Sooo, are you still mad at me? I'll admit that I should have thought about what I was saying more.
Proud fanboy of anime/video games/scifi. Oh and of Rei Ayanami XD
 767 Hinanawi Tenshi, Mon, 8th Oct '12 12:59:14 PM from Heaven, Above Gensokyo
People that compare 16.5 to Fate/Stay Night or even Tsukihime are forgetful or don't know what they're speaking of.

for instance

compare:

"Two years worth of semen made a glopping noise as it flowed endlessly" -SAO

to

"It's so tight I feel that pulling it out may rip my dick off." - F/SN (it was something like that but I don't remember the specific phrasing, making myself forgetful too)

to

"From my Cranberry White Chocolate Duo to my Buttery Pecan Decadence, her fingers stroke me with wet slopping noises." - Tsukihime (though I just pulled this off some LP I googled so i'm not so sure about how legit it is)

anyway I don't see "self-insert personality-less power fantasy slot" in Kirito at all

no on the self-insert thing because the author said that he himself is not like Kirito to start with

no on having no personality because if Kirito doesn't have what seems to be a personality I don't know what does

no on the "power fantasy slot" thing because the guy had to put up with things to angst over like being stupid enough to let his friends, in a death game, into an anti-crystal death trap which he himself could only overcome because he is overleveled, along with almost being killed by a creepy stalker murderer that is getting back at you for humiliating him, and with how most of his "power" is "stats in a videogame" which honestly isn't all that remarkable to most people anyway

Being at the Heavens, control the land. Being at the Earth, remove its keystones. And lay bare the scarlet hearts of man!
 768 The Handle, Mon, 8th Oct '12 1:20:01 PM from Location, Location, Loca
He himself said that strength in that world is but an illusion.
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 769 Clarste, Mon, 8th Oct '12 1:29:01 PM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
Which ends up being a pretty important theme of the series.

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I dislike the phrase Mary Stu/Gray Stu because the phrases are meaningless at this point. The traits to even qualify as one are super subjective, the view of whether they are good or bad depends on the person and even the meaning of the term is up of debate.

It is an utterly meaning descriptor that tells me really nothing of the character except their gender, if I don't know how the person using the term generally thinks about characters and the term already.

edited 8th Oct '12 1:35:25 PM by Vyctorian

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 771 Hinanawi Tenshi, Mon, 8th Oct '12 1:35:13 PM from Heaven, Above Gensokyo
The amount of times Mary Sue is used on males means it doesn't even really indicate gender either, I think.
Being at the Heavens, control the land. Being at the Earth, remove its keystones. And lay bare the scarlet hearts of man!
◥▶◀◤
[up]Also True. I already by point then, it tells me absolute jack.

Which btw sounds like a nasty drink mix.
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In honor of my 50lb pup
[up][up][up]Completely understandable. I was just warning that there will more reason for someone to apply it over the next couple major arcs and, subsequently, trying to ward off future arguments about that aspect of the series.

Just accept that some people WILL be calling him that and will have reason to do so. Doesn't mean you have to change your mind or try to change theirs. (Though I KNOW the latter will happen no matter what I say. I might even do it myself.)

edited 8th Oct '12 1:43:05 PM by Belian

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
 774 L Dragon 2, Mon, 8th Oct '12 1:43:18 PM from Pandora Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ZOMG TEH REI!!!!
Yeah, they aren't Mary Sues so much as Author Avatars. Although, it doesn't appear that they have hurt the quality of the show.

So, are we good. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.

edited 8th Oct '12 1:43:39 PM by LDragon2

Proud fanboy of anime/video games/scifi. Oh and of Rei Ayanami XD
 775 The Handle, Mon, 8th Oct '12 1:46:21 PM from Location, Location, Loca
And, really, the show is beautiful and the voice acting is melting.
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
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