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Anti-woman laws in America
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Anti-woman laws in America:

Three-Puppet Saluter
Librarian of Babel: I say "demographic skew" here because, well, men can't get pregnant, so as far as sonogram laws go, it's a moot point. (As for the obstetricians imposed upon by sonogram laws, a good number of them are guys.)

As a woman, I don't live in fear of all the things privilege checklists tell me I'm supposed to. I'd call it the Eleanor Roosevelt inferiority thing, but I never felt people were trying to impose inferiority on me to begin with. I think privilege awareness causes a lot more crippling paranoia than it solves.

edited 24th Apr '12 6:21:30 PM by DomaDoma

Hail Martin Septim!
 577 Octo, Tue, 24th Apr '12 6:33:36 PM from Germany
Prince of Dorne
Not of this component of the discussion. This component was focused on the sub-point of how winning over someone of the opposite sex constitutes objectification. I asked about the gender-flip, and your previous response seemed irrelevant.
This sub-discussion started with the gender aspect of the 'American dream'. If the concept of the 'American dream' is not a wider social concept I don't know what is.

I think privilege awareness causes a lot more crippling paranoia than it solves.
Really? I can see how, on some theoretical abstract level it could - but in reality, when does that ever happen?
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken.

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Three-Puppet Saluter
All the time on every college campus that isn't a right-wing Strawman U. (These are institutions that decidedly favor marginalized groups, ironically enough.)
Hail Martin Septim!
 579 Octo, Tue, 24th Apr '12 6:42:24 PM from Germany
Prince of Dorne
I'm in one of the most leftwing universities in Germany, as a non-immigrant (i.e., what in the USA would be 'white', privilege-wise) male, and I never really encountered such a phenomena. Some minor measures of institutionalized anti-male sexism, but never social activity stifling paranoia due to privilege checking.
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Unchanging Avatar.
It's not really an issue in Germany, though is it? What percentage of your population is a racial minority? So the issue isn't a hot topic, like it is in the US.

Course, there's no real reason why people should be so much more upset about gender dynamics in the US then Germany, but I guess I can just chalk that up to our culture's ever-growing "Us vs Them" mentality.
Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
 581 Octo, Tue, 24th Apr '12 6:54:53 PM from Germany
Prince of Dorne
Racial? Very low. But that's why I mentioned immigrant/non-immigrant. Keep in mind that "immigrant" here can very well mean "third generation in Germany" already. And with that definition it's a tenth of the population, and there are definitely the same issues of social privilege etc. Okay, 10% are still not as much as racial minorities in the USA, but also not non-existant.
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Unchanging Avatar.
Is the argument made that immigrants and former-immigrant families are discriminated against, or is it about limited social mobility?
Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
 583 Octo, Tue, 24th Apr '12 8:08:15 PM from Germany
Prince of Dorne
Mostly social mobility. Our education system is horrible in that regard, I think it was tested worst in social mobility among OECD countries; eitehr worst or nearly worst something like that. And of course the usual economical disadvantages, social prejudices and so on.
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Euo will do!
Meh: you beat the Swiss, so don't beat yourselves up about it. That's something, right there. wink
"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
It's very commonly expressed and even more commonly implicitly assumed.
"Implicitly" in what sense?

Again, the whole idea hardly seems popular anymore; whenever it does come up, it seems to be far more often condemned than condoned.

Hell, just look at this thread. o.o

edited 25th Apr '12 7:47:41 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
 586 Vericrat, Wed, 25th Apr '12 8:00:31 AM from .0000001 seconds ago
Like this, but brown.
I have met many, many girls that have dreams, and then put them on hold the moment they meet a guy they "love." Their dreams immediately shift to being a housewife. There is nothing wrong or non-progressive or anything like that with or about being a housewife. But when you notice a pattern of girls making that jump whenever they meet a guy, and you take a look at the laws being proposed and realize that there is exactly a 0% chance that they would be taken seriously if they affected men instead of women, you realize something:

Just like we don't have established racism anymore, but plenty of people still harbor some racist thoughts or assumptions (thinking young black men are thugs, automatically thinking black = lower class, whatever) that (subconsciously or otherwise) bleed into their actions, so it is with women. Except those assumptions about women tend to be with a "positive" connotation, that they are "too good" for manual labor or danger, or are "too pure" to be running around having multiple sex partners like men, or "too emotional" to make well-informed decisions about their bodies.

Guess what? I don't know many men who put their dreams on hold when they "win" their woman. The woman becomes a part of a man's life, she doesn't become all of it - and that's healthy. And I don't see men being treated as good/pure/emotionally driven, I just see them being treated as people who have their own responsibilities, failings, and attributes.
THIS IS A PSA: As of 1/1/13 there is a 1-year moratorium on No Pants Thursdays. Instead, we shall celebrate No Pants 2013.
[up]

This. Not only that, but thats what society expects.

If a girl wants to continue a career instead of stay home with her kids, lots of people will view her automatically as a neglectful mother.
Going Forth!
[up] And if a man does not want to continue his career to spend time with his kids, he is seen as a lousy provider.
 
But when you notice a pattern of girls making that jump whenever they meet a guy, and you take a look at the laws being proposed and realize that there is exactly a 0% chance that they would be taken seriously if they affected men instead of women
How could such a claim be tested? What equivalent gender-flip is there to compare to?

Guess what? I don't know many men who put their dreams on hold when they "win" their woman.
But your earlier claim wasn't so much about women "putting their dreams on hold" as about the role of housewife being their new dream. Obviously they're not putting it on hold if it has become their dream.

Even then, much of male behaviour is still done to impress women. If a guy puts his own dreams on hold because he thinks something else will be more impressive to women, would you consider that similar to the gender-flip you mention?
"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
[up] In a, "Give up your Passion for Pussy" sense, yeah.

Thought admitedly it could be argued that Pussy was always the end, Passion was merely the means.

(And I'm mis-quoting a Rocky movie song....must get more sleep. tongue)

edited 25th Apr '12 12:31:22 PM by Natasel

 
 591 Vericrat, Wed, 25th Apr '12 12:34:15 PM from .0000001 seconds ago
Like this, but brown.
How could such a claim be tested? What equivalent gender-flip is there to compare to?

Doesn't seem like employers will be subjecting their male employees to contraception scrutiny.
THIS IS A PSA: As of 1/1/13 there is a 1-year moratorium on No Pants Thursdays. Instead, we shall celebrate No Pants 2013.
[up] The article states nothing about comparisons to male equivalents.

Granted, some people already have made comparisons to viagra, but I don't think insurance coverage of viagra is as widely known about, and even then, the moral objections are for different reasons. (Namely, that contraception enables getting around the connection between sex and reproduction, while viagra does not.)
"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
 593 vanthebaron, Wed, 25th Apr '12 7:22:57 PM from Carlyle, Il
Mystical Monkey Master
15-Year-Old Girl Faces Life in Prison for a Miscarriage

edited 25th Apr '12 7:25:06 PM by vanthebaron

Sounds about right.
Going Forth!
 595 Rationalinsanity, Wed, 25th Apr '12 8:06:03 PM from The Inner Rim Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Alpha 1, standing by
[up][up]What ever happened to murder being a specific intent crime? The fact that juries are handing out convictions just goes to show how broken the justice system is.

[up]Wait... are you agreeing with the results of those cases?

edited 25th Apr '12 8:06:40 PM by Rationalinsanity

[up]

No. Just that I'm not surprised at all by anything anti-abortion groups do or say anymore. The more extreme ones made it quite clear they wont be happy until women are jailed for not popping out babies from the moment they have a period until they die in childbirth.

edited 25th Apr '12 8:13:45 PM by Midgetsnowman

Going Forth!
Euo will do!
Wow: new low achieved. "Sorry you didn't manage to commit suicide due to probable depression: here, how's about a semi-linked murder charge just to add to the load?" Any bets it was the rat poison, rather than any coke habit that did for the babby? tongue

So much for intent: she was intending on self-harm more than murder. <rolls eyes> And, if they're going to throw a murder charge at her, where's the manslaughter charge against the skipping boyfriend for putting her into the situation? He should've know how skipping out would affect the girl he was going to have a baby with... But, no: no charge for him. tongue
"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
Raven Wilder
My understanding was that, if you commit a crime, and someone dies as a result of it, you can be charged with murdering that person, even if their death was not your intent. Using cocaine is illegal in the United States, so if they can prove that cocaine use caused the baby's death (and, 7 months into the pregnancy, it is officially considered a baby rather than a baby-in-the-making), then I'd say the prosecution's got a pretty good case.
"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
[up]

If you commuit a crime and someone dies, thats usually defined as manslaughter unless theres proof you intended to kill someone.
Going Forth!
 600 They Call Me Tomu, Thu, 26th Apr '12 8:17:52 AM Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sureeeeendaaaa
She'd probably plea-bargain down to manslaughter.

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