Anti-woman laws in America

That's what I'm getting at. I never said that wanting something other than those things was bad, yet it came across to me that apparently there's people in this thread saying that wanting those things is bad.

Well said. The key is to remember the distinction between what one thinks is better and what options one thinks should be open to others.

What do you mean?

That's the thing, Since the 60s it's no longer been okay to simply want to marry, have some kids and get by. You have to be 'successful'.

On the whole this has been a good thing for many people, especially women who have long been chastiled for not 'knowing their place' and 'having ideas above their station'. But I think it has place an unfair burden on people who while hard working aren't that ambitious and have modest goals in life.

Oh fyi I personally I can't stand beer, but I'm australian so I must abide by social customs.

edited 22nd Apr '12 4:41:30 PM by joeyjojo

What I mean is that I see someone post "hard work, cold beer, love of good woman" and then I see someone else post "that's absurd". Anyway, since the issue seems resolved, let's not derail in that direction any further.

I don't think the problem is that a woman can't socially marry someone and be a stay-at-home mom and be happy with that, I think the problem is that most of the times it's impossible financially.

The point is that the message that this thread is trying to convey is that this idea of "coming home to a good woman" is that women are one of the prizes you're searching for in the American dream. We look at them differently, value them differently (sometimes more), and when we do that, we dehumanize them. And that is how shitty laws like the ones we've discussed here get support - because people still think of women as entirely different sorts of creatures than men.

You define success on your own terms. The difference now is that to make ends meet you might not be able to have a one-income household unless you have a higher paying job than a modest income-earner boasts. But nobody can stop you (or is going to try to stop you, as an adult) from living a simple life if that's what you want and you are able to do it. Many people, however, can't afford to.

Question then.

What is the American Woman's Dream?

Any laws helping or hurting the way to getting that dream?

American women need an entirely separate dream from American men because they're pretty much a different species and are completely unrelatable. Each gender is homogeneous within itself but completely alien compared to the other gender. That's how life works.

...how can people post things like this anywhere least of all in a thread about sexism.

Being a stay at home parent of either sex is valuable to society. However, because it's not economically valuable, that means it's looked at as pretty much worthless.

It's one of the driving motivations for the right, imo: you're only as useful as your tax-band. And, as women tend to be in lower tax-bands (never mind the reasons why)...

I dunno if this has been linked to already, but a friend sent it to me and I thought it was relevant.

If that cold pisswater that passes for beer in America is part of the American dream, I think everyone'd be better off out of it.

You're a rubbish German.

I used to enjoy some American beers. Even now, when I eat stuff that compliments it (like wings or pretzels) I can enjoy a beer.

But NOTHING compares to the beer I had when I went on my Biergarten tour in Munich. Germany really does have the best beer I've ever had. I could drink that stuff all the damn time.

[/derail]

@Joeyjojo: Maybe. But around here in the midwest where country music is a big thing, you always hear lines like that in say, songs about people running off to the city or acting "street" as though anything except coming back home to the country life and settling down in a blue collar job to "keep yourself from having idle hands" Is all anyone should ever aspire to in life.

Essentially, a big part of "country" culture is the idea that people who dream of the big city instead of valuing a hard days labor at a factory for a middling wage are deluded and need to come back down to earth, and that blue collar lives are more fulfilling, both emotionally, and spiritually,. because of all the hardship.

it also tends to be a huge purveyor of the idea that women are trophies to be won by being a good, country christian boy and then wax poetic about all the hardship you survived together. nevermind she probably would have supported your dreams, or wanted you to support hers.

edited 23rd Apr '12 4:18:53 PM by Midgetsnowman

And that is why county music is crap. It tells you "don't aspire to be anything just do what everyone else in your family does." premoting the American dream my ass.

County Music? I HATE COUNTY MUSIC TOO.

Of course, I hate rock music too, because I listened to this band called Nickelback on the radio, and they were garbage.

Nice pointless uninformed post thar.

So, thoughts on that article I linked?

edited 23rd Apr '12 4:25:08 PM by inane242

-batman slap- nickleback is not rock. They are pop.

Unneeded suffering is a sueable offense

edited 23rd Apr '12 4:28:17 PM by vanthebaron

1. Why derail?

2. And yes,Nickelback are a Rock band, Post-Grunge to be specific.

So, dat article I linked?

I like country music—granted, I went to high school in Texas —but yeah, it gets annoying at times. Why can't I have ambitions and dreams of my own again? It's because I'm female, raised Buddhist, from a working-class immigrant family, not a native English speaker, and going to college in the northeast.

There's nothing wrong with finding satisfaction in blue-collar work. But expecting everyone to do so? Absolutely not.

I'm really curious as to why country singers often sing about women like they're just there. As far as I know, most of the major country singers don't have a vendetta against women. It's not deliberate disenfranchisement, but that doesn't make it much better.

I've never really been into Country, and from what I've heard Country on the radio is atrocious (*Just like almost everything else on the radio*), but I have heard a few good country acts.

Anyways, somehow making it really, really hard to get an abortion seems worse than simply banning it outright.

That is actually a very good point about the sonogram laws. Pity you lot don't have a problem with that sort of invasive bullshit if it doesn't have a demographic skew. Injustice is a crime; bigotry is one of many possible motives. Never be confused on that point.

What lot? (*Is not sure what lot I'm in*)

Lot=slang for a group of people; guys.

Yes, I know what a lot is.

@Doma: Your "demographic skew" - or, as most people call it, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc - ensures not only that injustice will occur but also that one group of people will constantly be targeted by it. They must go through each day knowing that, through no fault of their own, they are more likely to be singled out, discriminated against, or even attacked, and that there is nothing they can do about it. It forces people to live in fear, or poverty, or isolation, or mistreatment even when active crimes are not being committed. A pattern of injustices is more than the sum of the parts.

If a well-qualified candidate for a job doesn't get the job because the employer decided to flip a coin and it came up tails, or because the candidate drinks Coke and the employer loves Pepsi, then that's unfair, but the well-qualified candidate can probably get a job somewhere else because there's isn't endemic oppression of Coke-drinkers. But where racism, sexism, and homophobia are concerned, the same isn't true - loads and loads of employers will reject or underpay them for the same reasons.

And that's only taking into account major instances of injustice. Remember that racism, sexism, and homophobia poison everyday social interactions constantly; they have significant effects even outside of denying someone work or trying to kill them.

edited 24th Apr '12 4:15:21 AM by ALibrarianofBabel