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Ambiguous Name: Winds Of Destiny Change get usage counts

Winged Doom
[up] Thank you. Yes, it's pretty much spot-on.
WE CLAIM THIS LAND FOR THE HIGH LORD. GOD BLESS THIS LAND AND OUR HIGH LORD.
Winged Doom
I'm leaving the wiki, so the YKTTW is now as Up for Grabs as they get. Pick it up or let it sink. Good luck.
WE CLAIM THIS LAND FOR THE HIGH LORD. GOD BLESS THIS LAND AND OUR HIGH LORD.
Anyone still care about this one? The LuckManipulationPower YKTTW is sitting around with two hats, and more than that posted in this thread.

 29 ccoa, Mon, 9th Jul '12 9:24:50 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
The YKTTW has 4 hats, are we ready to launch?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 30 ccoa, Wed, 22nd Aug '12 8:24:45 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Still waiting on the YKTTW, which looks ready to launch.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Bumping for launch.
 
Wait, what's the problem with it? Born Lucky is expressedly pretty much only positive luck. Winds of Destiny, Change is a generalized fortune-altering power.

It's not just luck either, it also covers destiny in fate/prophecy or time travel works. And as it says, it's more into the Reality Warper territory than Born Lucky.

Changing it to something like Luck Manipulation Power kills half the purpose of the thing. Let's figure out which links belong and which don't instead. Mkay, I did a minor title/laconic edit, I'm happy too. Let's launch it, it now has 5 hats.

Oh, it's a split? Now I'm confused (probably should change the title back). Is there really an issue here? Winds of Destiny, Change is actually a broader category including destiny and fate powers, and also straight luck. It would also become redundant in some places (Mat from Wheel of Time can alter luck and destiny). There may in fact be too many luck-based tropes anyway.

edited 29th Sep '12 2:32:17 PM by bulmabriefs144

 33 Mr.Cales, Wed, 17th Oct '12 1:02:13 PM from Misty Mountains
One of the Nine
I don't think there's a specific problem with it, though a rename might be in order. Or it could be merged with Luck Manipulation Mechanic, perhaps by renaming Luck Manipulation Mechanic to simply Luck Manipulation.
STAND BACK! I TAKE LARGE STEPS!
[up] Merging with Luck Manipulation Mechanic isn't really an option. Luck Manipulation Mechanic is something more or less completely different and usually has nothing to do, lore-wise, with literal manipulation of "luck". It covers things like "Increased chance of a critical hit", "Better chances of finding Random Drops", or "Rearrange the top three cards of your deck".

It's one way you might represent Winds of Destiny, Change in a game, but that's in the same way that Damage Over Time is one way you could represent being on fire. And I don't think we'd want to merge Playing with Fire with Damage Over Time.

Edit: Also, to chime in on the YKTTW, I am extremely skeptical that "probability" vs. "luck" is a meaningful distinction. I can only see it making things more confusing and creating new misuse. Seems misguided and unnecessary. I'm adding a nega-hat.

edited 17th Oct '12 2:56:23 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
I agree. The distinction between "probability" and "luck" here is a false one. There is no significant difference between the two powers.
Belief or disbelief rests with you.
Bump.
 
What are we doing here? What was the problem with this one?
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 38 Nman, Sat, 1st Dec '12 8:28:09 PM from USA Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
Walrusmaster
[up]I... I think I'd like to know the same thing? Does anyone still think this needs a rename or a sub trope? I think it's fine as-is.
Occam's Tweezers: The simplest solution is the best way to lose your job security.
Here is the situation, as I understand it.

There is a proposal to split Winds of Destiny, Change into two tropes. I am not sure, but I believe that the split works like this:

  • Winds of Destiny, Change: I increased the chance that you will have a car accident!
  • Luck Manipulation Power: I cursed you with bad luck, but I can't control what will happen! You might have a car accident, have a piano fall on you, lose your wallet or something, but I don't know!

The YKTTW for Luck Manipulation Power is now stuck with three hats, but might launch soon if more tropers give attention to it. If we launch it, we will have more work to do: edit Winds of Destiny, Change to exclude the new trope, and change some links.
 
 40 Troacctid, Wed, 5th Dec '12 7:16:47 PM from California
Can't see that being a splittable distinction.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
I thought this was just a rename thing since the name is kinda obscure and off the mark.
 
 42 Septimus Heap, Tue, 11th Dec '12 1:02:54 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
There is a wick check in the first post.

I think that the difference between "probability" and "luck" is indeed at best worthy of an Internal Subtrope. Luck is often about coincidences, and these are often about probability.

Luck Manipulation Power (ykttw) is down to two hats. I am starting to think that not enough tropers support the split, and the yttkw won't be launched.

I already argued (in the yttkw) that the distinction between "luck" and "probability" is not valid. If I am making good luck, then I am increasing the probability of good-luck events, so luck and probability aren't different.

The distinction, as I wrote in post 39, is about control over the power. I am starting to wonder if this is The Same but More, and not needing a split.
 
There's not really a tropable difference between "Luck" and "Probability".
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 45 lu 127, Tue, 11th Dec '12 9:53:23 PM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Even if we argue that there is, it's unlikely people will keep the differences straight.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
Ecce Homo Superior
Agree with [up] and [up][up].
(it's David Bowie)
 47 Spark 9, Sun, 23rd Dec '12 2:56:00 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
I don't see much of a point in splitting this, but judging by the first posts in this thread a rename would be a good idea. The current name is rather obscure and it's snowcloned of something that means its exact opposite; plus there's abuse.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
Could we just call this Luck Manipulation? I don't think that we necessarily need "Power", seeing as this isn't something people do normally.

It does have a different meaning in some gaming communities, but I don't think that's very common.
Belief or disbelief rests with you.
 49 Septimus Heap, Mon, 24th Dec '12 4:24:57 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Ok, so should we scrap the splitting proposal and just plain rename?

TBH once we added the comma I think the name stopped being ambiguous. There was never any confirmed misuse. I don't think there's a strong case for a rename.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Total posts: 54
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