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Rename (alt titles 7/31): Deus Ex Nukina get usage counts

 51 Septimus Heap, Wed, 11th Jul '12 12:43:23 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
We first need a definition here.

 52 Xtifr, Wed, 11th Jul '12 1:08:14 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Gotcha. Carry on. (I voted.)
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 53 jkbeta, Wed, 11th Jul '12 1:19:38 PM from right behind you Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
So far, it looks pretty one-sided.

 54 Spark 9, Wed, 11th Jul '12 3:03:23 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Yeah, I think a 11:0 unanimous vote is a clear outcome and callable.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 55 Septimus Heap, Wed, 11th Jul '12 3:04:12 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
It needs to be stable as well. And 11 is a bit on the short side. Let's wait a bit.

 56 Willbyr, Thu, 12th Jul '12 3:54:27 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Calling in favor of the winning option: Redefine to "Nuke used as a Deus ex Machina." Make it so.

edited 12th Jul '12 3:55:13 AM by Willbyr

 57 goto 124, Thu, 12th Jul '12 6:05:43 AM from Balack's Cove
Got to clear up the examples, right?

I looked through the examples but I'm not sure which ones were really about nukes being used as Deus ex Machina.

 58 Spark 9, Thu, 12th Jul '12 6:09:02 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Yes, and the next question is what we think of the Snow Cloned name. I'm not too fond of combining English and faux-Latin in a name like that.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 59 Septimus Heap, Thu, 12th Jul '12 6:10:14 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
[up]Keep it; it does make sense as a snowclone and even from a rough translation.

[up][up]Keep. The whole reason we changed the definition was to fit the name. It's clear what it is now, so not a problem. Are nukes used as a Deus ex Machina enough to be a trope, though?

edited 12th Jul '12 9:59:02 AM by AceOfSevens

 
 61 Xtifr, Thu, 12th Jul '12 10:08:54 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
No, it doesn't make sense as it stands. "God as nuke"? Nukus Ex Machina might make sense, but even that's quite a stretch.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
[up]So you think some tropers won't recognize it as a play on "Deaus Ex Machina" and try to go by its literal Latin meaning?
 
 63 Septimus Heap, Thu, 12th Jul '12 10:44:56 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
"God out of a nuke", to be exact. Makes more sense - a god (=plot-breaking power) that comes from a nuke.

[up]No, we can't rely on such references due to Fan Myopia - it's even said in Everything's Worse With Snowclones ("since obscure in-jokes are frowned upon, references to other trope names aren't probably a good idea either"). But the name works well enough on its own.

edited 12th Jul '12 10:46:43 AM by SeptimusHeap

 64 Xtifr, Thu, 12th Jul '12 11:10:15 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
But the original meaning of "deus ex machina" was that a god literally appeared to resolve things. It got broadened over the years to refer to something more like acts of god, but the "machina" still refers to the unexpected and unforeseen appearance part.

This is grotesque dog-latin that even Terry Pratchett would be embarrassed to be associated with. It doesn't mean squat, and it's an ugly snowclone, and cryptic to boot, especially to anyone who has English as a second language, and Latin not-at-all. I think we can do a lot better. I can even go so far as to say that I hate this name.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 65 Tuefel Hunden IV, Thu, 12th Jul '12 1:30:22 PM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
It isn't nearly as cryptic as your making it out to be. Cheesy dog latin sounding name sure. Cryptic hardly.

You really can not rely on title alone, there is also the description.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
 66 Spark 9, Thu, 12th Jul '12 1:39:19 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Well, it's fine to disagree on this, but that means we should hold a rename crowner to see where consensus lies.

We do generally avoid Snow Cloned names, after all, and it's a plausible argument that Nuke Ex Machina would be a better name.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 67 Septimus Heap, Thu, 12th Jul '12 1:42:10 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
[up]
  1. Snowclones have their reasons to be bad. Does this snowclone share their problems?
  2. Nuke Ex Machina sounds like it's a nuke out of nowhere. Not what we are going for.

 68 Spark 9, Thu, 12th Jul '12 1:59:00 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
[up] Judging by the discussion so far, some people think so and other people think not. Hence, the suggested crowner.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 69 Septimus Heap, Thu, 12th Jul '12 2:03:04 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
First, a new name suggestion. And Nuke Ex Machina is right out - continues the snowclone (not necessarily) problem and is misleading.

This avoids the usual snowclone problems because Deus ex Machina is not some wiki in-joke, but a widely known term.
 
 71 Tuefel Hunden IV, Thu, 12th Jul '12 4:22:48 PM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Personally I wouldn't mind a rename but the current name sort of works. I find it tacky and has that snow clown thing but if it works it works. If it doesn't well we can vote on name change suggestions.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
 72 Xtifr, Thu, 12th Jul '12 5:32:33 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
"Nukina" is clear? I'm supposed to recognize that such a bizarre word (to use the word "word" loosely) has some specific meaning? I actually think that Dead ex Machina (which has just been voted to rename in its TRS thread) was a whole lot closer to actually making sense. I could, perhaps, have been persuaded to vote for that one. I can't be persuaded to support this.

Also, the "usual snowclone problem" has nothing to do with Wiki in-jokes. Chekhov's Gun is a real term too, but we have constant problems with its snowclones. In fact, none of the examples of bad clones on Everything's Worse With Snowclones are based on Wiki in-jokes, except, maybe, the "everything's better with X" family. And even that is arguable.

edited 12th Jul '12 5:33:01 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
The usual snowclone problems are either that the trope has nothing to do with whatever it's snowcloning, making the name confusing or that the original is obscure and you need to understand it to understand the name of the new trope. The former was a problem, but we are fixing it with a redefinition. Deus ex machina is perhaps the best known of trope names, so the latter doesn't apply.
 
 74 Tuefel Hunden IV, Thu, 12th Jul '12 6:21:23 PM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Nukina is clear with the rest of the name for context. Deus Ex is god out of "variable here". This has been widely used and abused.

Even better is the picture on the page and the description. Nukina doesn't look anything like real latin and sounds like any number of faux latin names scattered about society and on products. There is no large leap required to extract the word nuke out of that. You handle it like you handle a lot of dog latin. You figure out what it sounds the most like.

"Who watches the watchmen?"
 75 Spark 9, Fri, 13th Jul '12 1:02:56 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
I don't think "Nukina" is clear at all. It could be a Latin term I'm unaware of, or the name of some character in some show, or even a city in Spain somewhere.
Special trousers. Very heroic.

Single Proposition: Deus Ex Nukina
31st Jul '12 4:33:09 AM
Vote up for yes, down for no.
At issue:
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