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That's true, but since it's only "can" and not "must", I'd say that this coincidence is irrelevant here. PSOC is still being misused.
About ^: That needs to be spelled out in People Sit On Chairs. It's a better argument than the misuse for a rename or swap with redirects, anyway.
edited 27th Feb '12 12:11:41 PM by SeptimusHeap
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I'm not sure if I understand your point.
This doesn't seem to have anything to do with People Sitting On Chairs. That title is clearly describing "an ordinary occurrence occurring ordinarily" and without prominence or consequence (more specifically, "a person using a chair for its intended purpose of seating a person"). Ordinary items used in different, new, unique, special, or plot significant ways in a story can be the basis of several tropes (off the top of my head, I can already think of MacGyvering, Shoe Phone, This May Help You On Your Quest, and even Chekhov's Gun); People Sitting On Chairs is only about ordinary, banal occurrences, usually broadly defined, that are mostly incidental and insignificant to us when describing/deconstructing recurring elements of plot, setting, character(s), etc. and not worth dedicating a trope page to.
edited 27th Feb '12 12:29:02 PM by SeanMurrayI
People Sit On Chairs can be more rare examples, like Person Goes To The Supermarket To Buy Milk. There's no meaning to it. It just is. It's not a trope. It also doesn't happen very often in fiction, but it's nonetheless People Sit On Chairs.
Too Meaningless To Trope is People Sit On Chairs.
Too Common To Trope isn't something I see as a valid excuse to not trope something.
Too Common For Examples is something that's tropable, but with no real meaning to listing individual examples. Female Villain, for instance, is a perfectly valid trope, as it's frequently used to carry a specific meaning. However, it's not really much of a point to list examples to it. We do have several subtropes of it, which aren't Too Common For Examples. Alpha Bitch, The Baroness, Black Widow, Dark Magical Girl, Evil Matriarch, and Dragon Lady are all subtropes, and not Too Common For Examples. It doesn't make them more valid as tropes, just more meaningful for examples.
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
The Other Troper
Take sneezing. It almost never is treated as something incidental in fiction.
OK, after this brief discussion of troping philosophy I see several problems with People Sit On Chairs:
- It gets misuse as Too Common For Examples. Since they are different things, Too Common For Examples must be created to capture that misuse.
- The name can also be taken as Happens In Real Life Hence Not A Trope. That will need a clarification of the definition and possibly a rename.
About Female Villain, that would be actually The Villain as a female, thus not page-worthy because of yet another guideline.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
It isn't. People Sit On Chairs already says as much, but incredible frequency of an action can make something incredibly ordinary and irrelevant to discuss, like People Breathing or Walking, or "character driving a car to another location".
Being common isn't enough to merit something being People Sit On Chairs, no, but it can contribute to something being that way.
So make a trope about the significance sneezing plays in plotlines and character building.
edited 27th Feb '12 12:37:42 PM by SeanMurrayI
The Other Troper
"Since they are different things, Too Common For Examples must be created to capture that misuse."
You want me to make that ykttw?
"Being common isn't enough to merit something being People Sit on Chairs, no, but it can contribute to something being that way."
No, it can't. There is no connection to them.
edited 27th Feb '12 12:39:15 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
I'd say yes, since I'm not an expert on YKTTW'ing stuff. I might help over there tough.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman I wouldn't mind that.
The Other Troper
The thing is, in realistic fiction, especially of the Slice of Life type, there are entire stories that revolve around shopping trips, or at least use shoping trips as notable event.
But if is is Suzy going out to the buy milk for mom, good luck finding tropes for it.
If it is the Child Mage Half Elf 70 year old prepubsecent orphaned sorcerer's apprentice to the Local Wizards Guild going out to the local inn to buy wine for a dwarven wizard who wears a Robe and Wizard Hat and carries a Magic Staff, you are have a dozen tropes before you even got through the first page, even though all you've done in replace all the ordinary things with bunch of fantasy words, with the storytelling signifigence of the shoping trip itself being pretty much the same.
edited 27th Feb '12 1:52:20 PM by Catbert
^These look like tropes that occur coincidentally to people sitting on chairs, I'd say.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Tsundere pet.
OK, let's assume you are writing "realistic fiction, especially of the Slice of Life type". How is "Suzy going out to the buy milk for mom" a trope? Fiction That Focuses On The Mundane Details Of Everyday Life is a trope, Sent On An Errand might be a trope, Forced To Help Mom With The Shopping might be a trope, Supermarket Induced Existential Angst might be a trope, but "character goes grocery shopping"... what's the narrative significance of that?
edited 27th Feb '12 1:52:56 PM by lebrel
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
The Other Troper
"Says the person that clearly never tried to write a trope page for realistic fiction, especially of the Slice of Life type. There are entire stories that revolve around shopping trips, or at least shoping trips as notable event."
That is covered under Slice of Life though.
"If it is the Child Mage Half Elf 70 year old prepubsecent orphaned sorcerer's apprentice to the Local Wizards Guild going out to the local inn to buy wine for a dwarven wizard who wears a Robe And A Wizard Hat and carries a Magic Staff, you are have a dozen tropes before you even got through the first page, even though all you've done in replace all the ordinary things with bunch of fantasy words, with the storytelling signifigence of the shoping trip itself being pretty much the same."
The shopping trip itself would be the incidental part though.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Meaningless Plot Device, maybe?
(The second post above) We aren't asking for a name that long. Too Meaningless To Trope would be much conciser.
Meaningless Plot Device is an oxymoron - if it's a plot device, it can't be meaningless.
edited 3rd Mar '12 8:31:05 AM by SeptimusHeap
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
"character goes grocery shopping".
About as meaningful as Child Sent On An Errand, which you said is a trope, though good luck getting it through YKTTW without someone calling chairs.
It it really just depends on the genre. In a domestic story, grocery shopping can be the big family event of the day. In Cooking Stories, it can be as important as a Training Montage in Sports Stories.
Tsundere pet.
"Selecting the special ingredients you need for some complicated recipe" is a trope, and one that applies outside of cooking (many magical systems, especially those based on alchemy, will involve this). "Goes grocery shopping" is on a par with "wears some kind of clothing" as far as tropiness goes.
Dragon Writer
Is it just me or does that sound like a gender debate? Y'know, men go grocery shopping to hunt down whatever ingredients/foods they are specifically looking for and get back home quick. Women go grocery shopping to hang out and be social, and maybe pick up a few foods along the way.
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
So why not build a trope around the occurrences where it's treated as a "big family event"? That certainly sounds more distinct and meaningful than just Grocery Shopping.
edited 27th Feb '12 2:09:45 PM by SeanMurrayI
People, this is the People Sit On Chairs TRS topic, not a tropination policy Wiki Talk thread. Leave this discussion of trope philosophy to Wiki Talk.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
The point of People Sit On Chairs is that something that happens in a story isn't a trope if it has No Special Significance, right?
The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
From the page:
I realized another problem with the name. It makes it look like it's about everyday things alone. The problem with that is fiction doesn't always treat everyday things as everyday. Yet this is what has led some to confuse even Truth in Television tropes with this. Yes, that has cropped up in ykttw and TRS before.
EDIT: Yet most proper instances of PSOC tend to be everyday things without meaning, so I would say the best name is Everyday Incidental Thing or Everyday Incidental Things Are Not Tropes. And we might also need to note that some message about when everyday things are treated as significant when they would not be in real life.
edited 27th Feb '12 12:13:44 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.