Overlording the Underworld
It pays respect to them without making them absolute. It's a good design choice, naming them legends.
I say things.
I finally finished reading Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, and all I can say is... Fuck you, Disney.
"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
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The thing is, for every one of those like The Rise of Darth Vader, you had ten of things like The Glove Of Darth Vader. And most of them weren't half as funny. Until Disney really screws the pooch, it's best to treat this as a net positive, as all the bad is thrown out and all the good can be freely used at one's own discretion.
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
Indeed: if The Rise of Darth Vader doesn't clash with anything they are attempting in, say, Rebels, then they could re-canonize it.
It's quite possible that they will do that with select EU works set between the trilogies, as well as probably canonizing pre-prequel stuffs that don't clash with any mythos they want to incorporate into VII, VIII, and IX
I finally finished reading the Thrawn trilogy, it was pretty entertaining. Kind of felt a little anti-climactic on Thrawn's side, while the stuff with C'baoth felt like it dragged on a little too much, and there was barely any actual wrapping up of things after all the fighting and exploding, but overall I really enjoyed it.
Anyone got a good idea of what to read next? There's like a gorillion books, I don't really know what to pick up.
Every mission's a suicide mission!
I'm a pretty big Star Wars fan myself, and initially I wasn't too disheartened that the EU got scrapped, but now I kinda am. Sure, the EU had a lot of questionable-at-best, stupid-at-worst moments in it, but it was still good overall, and I don't have high hopes for Episode VII. If Abrams and Disney fuck this up, then I'll unofficially start considering EU canon again...
Canon along with Jar Jar never existing, the Ewoks never fighting on Endor, Anakin never being a whiny bastard, and the Padme romance never happening. My perfect little headcanon. 
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
The X-Wing books?
Would that it were so simple.
"Kind of felt a little anti-climactic on Thrawn's side, while the stuff with C'baoth felt like it dragged on a little too much, and there was barely any actual wrapping up of things after all the fighting and exploding, but overall I really enjoyed it."
Anti-climactic was the best way to get rid of him, though. What better way for a megalomaniac to die than suddenly and ignobly?
"It's quite possible that they will do that with select EU works set between the trilogies, as well as probably canonizing pre-prequel stuffs that don't clash with any mythos they want to incorporate into VII, VIII, and IX."
Don't be foolish. They'll never do that.
edited 14th Jan '15 4:40:28 AM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
They'll definitely canonize large tracts of pre-prequel stuff unless they're quite stupid and want to rewrite everything from Bane and before whole-cloth so they can sell it again. But i don't see them doing that. Not when they have 30 years worth of Luke-Han-Leia stories to build now.
Every mission's a suicide mission!
I wouldn't mind if some stuff got canonized, as long as it isn't the 'bad stuff'. The EU had a big tendency to make the Empire/Imperial Remnant astoundingly weak and pathetic, for example, and that's one of my biggest gripes. Guess it's too much to ask for an Imperial victory.
"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion."
Would that it were so simple.
The Empire is fundamentally built on avarice and corruption, though, so it makes sense that they slowly become more and more foolish. They score victories under Thrawn and Isard, but even they are megalomaniacs who are too busy burnishing their reputation with military conquest to bother consolidating what they have left after Endor. It's the kind of people the Empire attracts. Good governance was never part of the Imperial package, no matter how enamored with fascism the writers got.
A villain shouldn't be competent simply because Rule of Drama says so. If they're a society built on social dysfunction without the resources they once had, they should act like it
edited 15th Jan '15 3:25:33 AM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Every mission's a suicide mission!
I wouldn't say it was "built" on avarice and corruption. If anything it was built in the complete opposite under Palpatine, and it wasn't until after his (first) death that things started to get bad. However, yeah, the Remnant Era was marked with plenty of corruption and greed, but I always wished a writer would come along and write in an amazing Imperial Commander, one with faults but one whom did not fail in the end. I'm a bit biased in my views though. I'm a sucker for moments when The Bad Guy Wins and nothing would tickle my fancy more than seeing an Imperial banner over every planet of the galaxy. Those who dislike the Empire or like the heroic side would definitely have different thoughts though.
"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion."
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
....Thrawn had a reason for his conquests beyond megalomania. *Ahem* See the Hand of Thawn duology ;)
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Overlording the Underworld
Thrawn DID consolidate his territory. The trilogy starts five years after the OT and Thrawn spent much of that time grabbing what he could hold and preparing for future campaigns. What we see in the trilogy is a campaign to break the New Republic and take their territory so he could leverage it against the other Successor states.
Would that it were so simple.
That leaves a bad taste in my mouth, simply because sci-fi in general tends to be politically right-wing and authoritarian. Troy Denning, for example, was a total fascist. I don't want the bad guy to win just because it's edgy. If the bad guys are Stupid Evil (and the Empire's philosophy is built on it; Zahn is absolutely wrong on this count), they deserve to lose.
Thrawn is actually an upstart in the Thrawn trilogy. Before he shows up, Isard and Zsinj are the main Imperial warlords.
edited 16th Jan '15 8:02:46 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
Though both get whacked semi-right before
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Overlording the Underworld
Scifi was built on fighting aliens and doing Starship battles. Left-Wing ideals attack war on every front they can and work toward peace, so you have to change the public's thinking if you really want a Left-Wing trend for scifi.
Plus this is Star Wars. The word War is built right into the title, making a Leftward bent even more difficult to justify.
edited 17th Jan '15 8:26:10 AM by Journeyman
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
I like the idea of the enemy not being stupid evil because it needs to adhere to political realism. Fascism and authoritarianism are appealing to a lot of people in many situations, and barring situations like the Clone Army or the Droid Army, you need to have a lot of people willing to follow your ideals to some degree.
Besides, there's plenty of leftist scifi out there, including Star Wars itself, which according to Lucas was at least partially glorifying the damn Viet Cong (or the obvious War on Terror-era allusions to the Bush doctrine in Episode III). Not to mention utopian-socialist themes that served as the cornerstone of Star Trek, despite being a series almost exclusively from a military viewpoint.
The trouble for authors is that evil is often more interesting to explore and explain. Barring people living in failed states (who wouldn't have the money to consume this media), most of your viewers are going to be "good" people leading decent lives in a "good" society. Good is boring; I can look out my window and see "good," at least as far as "the good guys" in scifi usually go. Evil is exotic, it is a distortion, what motivates people to be evil, or follow the villain? That's always intrigued me personally, in coming up with reasons why the mooks working for the bad guys in movies do what they do. Not everyone is personally invested in the villain's cause, but they have to have some reason for following them.
Would that it were so simple.
People follow the villain because they themselves are evil. Bathe in their flowing blood.
Overlording the Underworld
Not even close. Many maybe, but nowhere near all. Most folks are neutral. They're about survival and keeping their own families alive. If it comes down to them or someone else, most are going to choose themselves and their own. That's not evil, it's called Survival. And it's the only reason evolution worked for millions of years. When life's good, you help others out. Once the world turns against your people, you do everything in your power to get your own family safe and sound first. Then, if possible, you turn around and help others. Only time a neutral person will help others is when it's needed.
Every mission's a suicide mission!
@Crimson
No offense intended, but... really, your entire reasoning on hating a villain is if they're right-winged or fascistic? They should never win in that case? That seems pretty excessive at best. Left-wing, Right-wing, everyone's capable of being a monster, and I don't think "wing" politics should play in to whether or not a leader should succeed.
Again, coming from the person whose headcanon is that Palpatine still holds the galaxy, I'm admittedly biased in favor of the bad guys 95% of the time in most works of fiction.
Even still though, I'm fine with someone disliking villains, but from what I'm reading, it seems as if you're saying "The villain should not succeed if they have fascist ideals. Stupid Evil should not win just to be edgy.", as if the sheer fact of being a fascist makes them "Stupid" and "Edgy".
edited 17th Jan '15 11:54:30 PM by Jenaiqueserasera
"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion."
Would that it were so simple.
The reason I say so is because fiction is a form of social engineering. Do you know why Evil is Cool? Because generations of Black Shirt authors have been peddling fiction where that is the case. Where the heroes are stupid, reactionary, listless, and incompetent. What destroys all the good things in the world isn't military or political overthrow; it's the next generation (namely, our parents and us) who've never seen true evil, so delude ourselves into thinking fascists and totalitarians are not so bad because they have refined tastes and wear lots of black leather.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Overlording the Underworld
Evil knows every political scheme. Even Democracies. Fascists are evil because they usually slam their fists down on people for things they have no control over. Like Race or their upbringing. If power didn't corrupt people, every political system could be used for good, not just evil.
And Social Engineering should be at the individual level, not government. Train everyone to be the best they possibly can be, and no matter what system you have you'll be the better for it.
edited 18th Jan '15 10:00:11 AM by Journeyman
Every mission's a suicide mission!
I'm not sure if I agree with you Crimson. I think fiction is just that; fiction. No one's complaining about "giving delusions" to children of dragons, fairies, and unicorns existing, but plenty of childhood stories are full of those elements. Equally, if the villains win in a universe, it's just fiction. They shouldn't be required to lose just because it might "promote fascism" if they win.
Plus, black leather is pretty cool.
I'm not sure why but I do like how they calling the old EU "Legends".