Star Wars

Thank you for clarifying that! I was having a hard time understanding just what you found so Narmy about that scene!

At least Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious wasn't so Narmy in the films! In fact, Ian Mc Diarmid, the actor who played the character, had a couple of interesting things to say about Palpatine:

There's a moment in one scene of the new film where tears almost appear in his eye. These are crocodile tears, but for all those in the movie, and perhaps watching the movie itself, they'll see he is apparently moved — and of course, he is. He can just do it. He can, as it were, turn it on. And I suppose for him, it's also a bit of a turn-on — the pure exercise of power is what he's all about. That's the only thing he's interested in and the only thing that can satisfy him — which makes him completely fascinating to play, because it is an evil soul. He is more evil than the devil. At least Satan fell — he has a history, and it's one of revenge.

Everything he does is an act of pure hypocrisy, and that's interesting to play. I suppose it's rather like playing Iago [from Othello]. All the characters in the play — including Othello until the end — think that "Honest Iago" is a decent guy doing his job, and he's quite liked. But at the same time there's a tremendous evil subconscious in operation.

The first quote brings up a big question: who's more evil, the guy who started out as evil or the guy who was good and pulled a Face–Heel Turn? Definitely a question for Eviler than Thou! The second quote shows that Palpatine really had a lot of people fooled...too bad the same couldn't be said for the audience!

These two quotes show the problem with Palpatine's portrayal in Dark Empire. In that storyline, he's now got Obviously Evil and Dastardly Whiplash scrawled all over him. Also, the Character Derailment of Palpatine and a previously unseen huge degree of Ax-Crazy ended up turning him into a huge bundle of Narm!

Let's see...first, there was the plan he came up with involves a series of wave assaults on the Galaxy (i.e. he wants to Zerg Rush the Galaxy into submission). Clearly, Palpatine had forgotten how to spell "subtlety" and "patience"!

In an Evil Is Petty instance, he brings his larger-than-a-Super-Star-Destroyer flagship Eclipse and a number of Imperial ships with him right to the New Republic base. Why? Because Leia snatched a Jedi Holocron from him and he wants it back! He must have forgotten that there are more subtle ways to get a measly Holocron back. Like, you know, the way he got that Sith Holocron in Darth Maul Shadow Hunter?

Finally, there's the way he starts yelling "Curse you, Jedi!" and "Curse you, Skywalkers!" If you're wondering what the problem with that is, you know how in Peanuts, Snoopy has a habit of yelling "Curse you, Red Baron!"? Well, every time I think about Palpatine yelling "Curse you!", I think about Snoopy! It's pretty hard to take a villain seriously when something he says makes one think about Snoopy!

Like I said, I thought Dark Empire was an entertaining story. I just wish they didn't turn Palpatine into some cartoonish, villainous caricture of himself! The original Palpatine would have crushed every one of those posers under his boot!

I don't think subtlety would be Palpatine's strong point after he started looking like Satan, and most of the Galaxy became Genre Savvy about it.

Well, that's true, but he would still have other ways to get stuff. He didn't have to go up to the New Republic base with the attitude of a three-year-old whose candy got stolen!

Another detail about Palpatine in that storyline is how insanely powerful he has become. Powerful enough to generate Force Storms, hyperspace wormholes capable of devastating planet surfaces and consuming entire starship fleets! It sounds pretty cool, until you start thinking about it. Then Fridge Logic sets in. If Palpatine is really as powerful as this, why does he need an army, a fleet, superweapons, or even a government? He could easily just stay on his throneworld of Byss and destroy Pinnacle Base with this ability. After all, he used this to take Luke from Coruscant and put him in a Dungeon Ship, which took him to Byss! He could have used it to get his "precious" Holocron back!

Yeah, the insane, god-like Force powers did stretch my suspension of disbelief, but Palpatine's pettiness and overall insanity can be easily explained by the fact that he's been repeatedly cloned and the dark side has been affecting his mind.

You're right. Palpatine's seeming Character Derailment could have some plausible explanations. I know that fictional works require you to have a capacity for Willing Suspension of Disbelief, but if a fictional work breaks the WSOD, then you have Bad Writing going on.

Still, to give credit where it's due, Dark Empire did do a good job showing just how much of a Complete Monster Emperor Palpatine is at a number of points. That one scene where he lies on his bed and tells a pregnant Leia that he could transfer his spirit into any body...including the one stirring in her womb, and then saying that her child belongs to him...Squick! Later, he tries to touch her belly, saying that her child will become an extension of his will, and that at the appropriate age he will displace the personality dwelling within baby Anakin and take that young Jedi body as his own! Double Squick!! Does he sound like a child molester (or should I say Memetic Molester) to you? At least Leia rebuffed him both times!

edited 27th Feb '12 5:58:57 PM by TiggersAreGreat

I just got into the novel side of the EU a week or two ago, by buying Heir to the Empire. Tomorrow I'm going to the library to pick up Dark Force Rising, and maybe The Last Command. I didn't realize there were over 200 books in the EU. . .

Okay, who are the better writers, and who should I avoid? Will I lose anything canon-wise if I skip any of the writers? I don't have a problem picking up a series in the middle, as long as someone in the story explains what I haven't read.

edited 29th Feb '12 7:10:36 PM by Journeyman

I'm told you should get Stover, Allston, Luceno, and Zahn, and avoid The Crystal Star, Anderson except when he's teamed up with his wife, some Denning, and possibly Traviss. I'd also recommend Dan Wallace's Continuity Porn-filled reference books.

Check out the X-Wing series by Michael Stackpole as well.

Shatterpoint and Yoda: Dark Rendezvous are required reading for anyone looking for the Clone Wars period done right.

edited 29th Feb '12 8:26:02 PM by CrimsonZephyr

You can't go wrong with Tim Zahn. I also liked The Truce at Bakura, and the X-Wing series (both under Stackpole and Allston) are definitely worth looking into, especially if you have any familiarity with the X-Wing and TIE Fighter games.

Thank you! I'm going to finish out the Thrawn Trilogy (getting Dark Force Rising from the library soon as someone else finishes with it) and then I'm going to hunt for some other authors and see how I feel about them.

@ Hamburger Time: You know, I've noticed how people pretty much "boo and hiss" The Crystal Star.

I don't get that. I mean, I've read the book and I didn't think it was such a bad read.

1. The book plays with the Mama Bear trope, with three characters, no less! What's wrong with that?
2. You thought Abeloth from Fate Of The Jedi was the first Eldritch Abomination of Star Wars? Sorry, Waru beat her to that in this story! What's wrong with that?
3. The book has Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin providing a source of entertainment by handling themselves at such a young age. What's wrong with that?
4. The book has some interesting dialogue, like Luke yelling at Han to not call him "kid", and one of Hethrir's goons making a speech about how terrible it is for his children to be exposed to egalitarian values (Lucius Malfoy from Harry Potter making a secret Cameo appearance, no doubt!). What's wrong with that?
5. The book has a number of interesting characters, who sadly have not made a reappearance since this book. Why?

Vonda Mc Intyre, I'd like you to know that there is someone here who will defend your book!

The trouble with The Crystal Star is that while it does introduce elements that are either original or positive, it's so full of Narm that you can't really take it seriously.

The best conclusion about The Crystal Star is that it's not anything like a Star Wars book. At any rate, it's very different from the EU at that point, or at any point. It's just weird. It tells a lot of the story from the POV of toddlers, there's the titular Negative Space Wedgie, the villain is unexplained and not in keeping with Star Wars, and the tone is just uneven. The only other book I've read by Vonda Mc Intyre is Dreamsnake, which is fantastic.

Oh, and I love how according to Wookieepedia, they Arc Welded the villains of The Crystal Star to the Reborn in JediOutcast. That's the sort of ridiculous "everything is canon, jam it all together" retcon that I love about the EU.

@Journeyman, the Jedi Academy trilogy isn't the best of the EU, but it helps a lot to read it, because it sets the stage for the novels really moving past the films and progressing on their own. IMO, the first half of Stackpole's I, Jedi manages to cover the same story effectively despite being a canonized Mary Sue Fix Fic, but I wouldn't recommend just reading that.

RE The Crystal Star: I loved Vonda McInTyre's Star Trek books, but there was just something about the writing in Star that alternated between annoying and boring for me.

edited 5th Mar '12 5:58:25 AM by Willbyr

Well, it's not Star Wars without some Narm! With that said, The Crystal Star did have dialogue in it that was supposed to be serious but I found myself laughing! That line with children being exposed to egalitarian values was just hilarious. The beginning part with Leia panicking because of her missing children should have come off as intense with Adult Fear, but it came off as her acting like an overemotional Drama Queen instead.

Why is Waru being left unexplained a bad thing? That thing's an Eldritch Abomination. Isn't an E.A., by definition, something that is best left unexplained?

edited 5th Mar '12 12:38:15 PM by TiggersAreGreat

That's the first time I noticed that Eldritch Abomination and Emilie Autumn have the same acronym. Thanks for pointing that out.

Okay, back to SW. I personally didn't think The Crystal Star was the worst Star Wars book. There were certain things I even liked about it (Xaverri was in that one, wasn't she? I think I remember her elevating it a bit.). But I didn't love it either, and have only read it once. It could certainly have been better, since it had a promising premise. In all, I'd say it was disappointing, but not hate-worthy.

Say, have you heard that on August 2012, X Wing Mercy Kill is going to be released?

I have to be honest and say that I have not read the X Wing books very much. Still, I feel relieved that the writers are going back to that series. The trouble with a lot of Star Wars books recently is that they focus a little too much on the main characters. At least with books like X-Wing, it'll be nice to see the spotlight on secondary characters, for a change!

Today, I got my hands on the latest Star Wars Insider magazine. Do you guys get this magazine? It has a lot of interesting stuff on the past, present and future of the Star Wars franchise!

For instance, there's a section that has Troy Denning talking about the book Apocalypse in a spoiler-free fashion. He says that the title is supposed to refer to both destruction and rejuvenation! I can say that Star Wars could definitely use some rejuvenation! Also, he makes it clear that he's not going to retire the old guard and that the book is NOT Luke Skywalker's swan song. I would be lying if I said that I don't feel some relief over that!

X-Wing is still my favorite SW series, so I am on the edge of my seat in anticipation of that one. Who's writing it, Allston or Stackpole?

as long as there's no Ephebophilia this time around...

Oh, yeah! I forgot about the Ephebophilia. That was just unnecessary Squick! Still, Ben doesn't seem to hold it against Tahiri!

Aaron Allston is writing X Wing Mercy Kill. Michael A Stackpole hasn't written any Star Wars books since the New Jedi Order Dark Tide books.

Yeah, that's why I thought they might be bringing Stackpole back... it's been too long since he wrote an SW book. But still, Aaron Allston is an excellent author, so it's definitely something to look forward to.

reading the 50 page excerpt from Apocalypse...Jedi Spice Cartel with Luke Skywalker as its overlord? Okay. If the public really believes this, force suggestion or, not, they are offically Too Dumb to Live.

I find myself longing for a scene where the public of the galaxy stands up and tells the Big Bad of the week to stuff it, the Jedi have been saving their ass for who knows long and they are not drinking the kool-aid this time.

Just once. Pretty please?

edited 11th Mar '12 12:47:33 PM by 3of4

If they ever did that, would they need the Jedi in the first place?

You know, that's actually hilarious! It's good to see Star Wars going back to having a sense of humour!

One minor detail you're forgetting: Abeloth is essentially an Expy of Cthulhu. You know, the squid monster that can destroy the whole world just by waking up, and could break your mind from you looking at it, due to it being an Eldritch Abomination?

I've seen some reviews of Fate Of The Jedi whining about how Abeloth is demonstrating power levels greater than Palpatine's. I'm forced to say this: "Duh!" An E.A. is supposed to have power levels greater than a mortal. It's not much of a stretch for such a creature to be able to make the public at large fall under its spell!