Rename (alt titles crowner 4/24): Gundamjack

Gundamjack. Name makes no sense to me. Apparently a portmanteau of Gundam something and Jack something.

Seriously, the name doesn't make an iota of sense and is completely opaque to those unfamiliar with the work such as I.

edited 13th Feb '12 4:59:36 PM by Twentington

Provide evidence of misuse or disuse, please. I'm not familiar with the work either, but it would be nice to see if this name is actually hurting the trope.

edited 13th Feb '12 4:53:05 PM by lu127

It's clearly a play on hijacking, thus gundamjacking.

That being said, it's still seems like a rather bad name since the trope doesn't seem to be limited to Humongous Mecha. Maybe something like Grand Theft Prototype

edited 13th Feb '12 4:52:01 PM by Blissey1

Nothing to do with Candlejack. "Hijack". Hijacking a Gundam. Of course, that assumes that you know what a Gundam is...

Grand Theft Prototype is much clearer.

edited 13th Feb '12 4:51:55 PM by Madrugada

The concept is simple enough: the characters hijack an enemy vehicle. This seems to have happened a lot in the Gundam series, where characters constantly steal enemy super prototype Humongous Mecha. Hijacked Gundam = Gundamjack.

If you want to make a case for the name being too obscure, go right ahead. But it has nothing to do with Candle Jack.

EDIT: Huh. Could've sworn I didn't take that long to respond to this.

edited 13th Feb '12 4:53:59 PM by Tahaneira

I skipped down to the bottom and saw Candlejack, which is why I thought it had something to do with it.

Still, I have no idea what the hell a Gundam is, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

This actually has the redirect Mecha Hijacking and seems to be limited to stealing a giant Super Robot. Gundam is one of the best known this genre so I don't think the name is that bad considering how limited it is.

Humongous Mecha. That's about it, really.

Gotta agree, Grand Theft Prototype does sound a lot clearer. But there's some inconsistency on the page itself. It's supposed to be about stealing special vehicles; for example, the Gurren Lagann example is just about them taking regular old mecha for themselves, not special ones.

edited 13th Feb '12 5:13:43 PM by Tahaneira

it doesn't seem to be just Humongous Mecha though, but any prototype military machine. There's more than a few examples of a Cool Plane, Cool Starship and even a Tank being hijacked. Not to mention the description never once mentions Humongous Mecha.

edited 13th Feb '12 5:10:44 PM by Blissey1

The vast majority of mechajacking examples are in the Anime and Video Game sections. Most of them actually are about stealing prototypes, or at least brand-new models. There aren't that many instances of people stealing regular ol' mass-produced mecha, not enough to warrant a separate trope to my eyes. I suggest we cut those entries entirely and then rename the article.

Of course, that does mean the Gurren Lagann crowd is going to be pissed.

As bad as the name is, according to the new guidelines we have to lock this discussion because there is no proof of misuse in the OP.

I was going to say that there's no change needed, except "prototype" is something that should be troped.

There's no need to change this from Gundum Hijacking, because Gundam is so prevalent in translations.

But "prototype theft" should be it's own trope.

Crap.

So would it be considered fair to yell to a mod, then open a new topic with the same issue? Only more coherently?

If you're going to go and do it right now, then go ahead. Presenting evidence, I mean. Otherwise there's not much point in continuing.

edited 13th Feb '12 5:53:47 PM by troacctid

All right. I'm doing a wick check to gather evidence that the name is misleading; I'll post results if there's evidence. If not, then there's no case to be made.

It isn't misleading, when the trope is "steal enemy Mecha". It is misleading for a more general "steal enemy prototype". Right now the definition tries to be a mix of the two. I think this is a trope in need of a split. The enemy prototype could be a sword, or supersuit; but the current page wouldn't get used that way.

A prototype Cool Car might get a wick, but not a newfangled tuxedo.

@Osmium: The new guidelines aren't "Prove misuse or GTFO".

When checking wicks, also check to see if they are disproportionately from one fandom or disproportionately focused on mecha (compared to the listed examples on the page).

Final wick count: out of 138 wicks, not counting dead ends, 44 don't fit the definition. 8 of them lack context, so I can't tell for sure, 23 involve stealing normal mechs, 11 involve stealing nor fighters/spaceships/other vehicles, and there are two special cases. There are 97 inbounds.

The list:

• Non-Unique Mechs
• A Mech by Any Other Name
• Anime & Manga
• Badass Bookworm
• Combat Breakdown
• Falling into the Cockpit: Used right and wrong.
• How To Survive A War Movie
• Kirby of the Stars
• Martian Successor Nadesico
• Mech Warrior
• Metal Fatigue
• Mobile Suit Gundam MSIGLOO
• Persona2
• Robot Wars
• Super Robot Genre
• Sym Bionic Titan
• Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
• Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
• The John Henry
• The Last Chancers
• There Is a God!: Not even stealing a normal one. Scavenging it.
• World War X
• Yukari Is Free
• Yukari Is Free

• Stealing Normal Vehicles
• Babylon 5 Tropes A To H
• Battle Zone
• High-Altitude Battle
• Iron Eagle
• Kirby Of The Stars
• Project Arashi
• Short-Lived Aerial Escape
• Star Wars Battlefront
• The Wellspring Empire
• Unreal Tournament 2004
• Unreal Tournament III

• Lacking Context
• Beggars In Spain
• Chaos Card Captor Sakura
• Macross Frontier
• Mazinger Z: …I have no idea what they’re talking about, but I don’t think it counts.
• Mobile Suit Gundam F 91
• Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
• Ring Of Red
• To Be Lawful or Good

• And the Special Cases
• Phlebotinum Rebel: Bizarrely enough. The main entry makes it sound like it can be any prototype substance/machinery, not just a vehicle.
• Star Driver: Debatable. "Samekh" is not a prototype, but unique. I say let it pass.

The highest instance was, unsurprisingly, the Gundam series. Fortunately, the fans as a whole seem to know how to actually handle the trope. The vast majority were mecha-related, but they seemed to know how to handle themselves.

In any case, that's almost a third of the wicks inaccurate. I'd say that warrants a rename, though I'm still not convinced with need a specific "Humongous Mecha Hijacking" trope.

edited 13th Feb '12 8:09:58 PM by Tahaneira

Tossing out the special cases and the examples lacking context, there's still nearly 25% misuse. That's sufficient justification to let the thread continue.

edited 13th Feb '12 8:10:37 PM by Ironeye

Gurren Lagann needs explanation: the Mechas they start with are ancient tech. The animal men don't manufacture new Mechas. But each Mecha has a unique design. Only in the later part of the series are gundams mass-produced, and those are never stolen. The only Mechas that are stolen are unique, because the designs are never repeated.

It doesn't matter. Even if they're custom-made, they're not Super Prototypes or special cases. The first Ganmen stolen are driven by Mooks. There are thousands just like them. They only become special as the operators themselves gain in power.

edited 13th Feb '12 8:15:20 PM by Tahaneira

Read super prototype:

A similar phenomenon, especially in the Mecha genre, is the Ace Custom, a mass-produced or prototype mecha customized or re-designed for the use of an Ace Pilot, taken from the customized paint jobs of planes used by Ace pilots (particularly the Germans, and especially one) of World War I. These are often essentially Super Prototypes, with the only difference being that it was made after the mass-produced mecha. In addition to a personalized paint job, an Ace Custom may have a tweaked engine, extra sensors, or a distinctive weapon, all keyed to the individual fighting style of its pilot.

Only, in TTGL, they were made before the mass-produced lines. But they are all distinctive, with different weapons and customization.

I was mistaken, then. But under the current definition of Gundamjack, it has to be a new Super Prototype, one that is either still under or just finished development. I don't think the first-arc ganmen count.

So it still doesn't work. But under that light, I think the definition is a little narrow. Or at least unclear.

I note that we don't even have regular car or plane hijacking as a trope.

I think that's straying into YKTTW territory. And we're getting a little off-topic. We should focus on the fact that the trope name seems to make a lot of people think that this about hijacking Humongous Mecha specifically, instead of Super Prototype craft in general. I'll make a crowner.