More women astronauts needed?

here

this conversation's off topic by now anyway.

threadhop: We will need more Astronauts when we actually have a space program with some funding. Since our funding has suffered greatly and we don't even have a manned launch platform any longer, discussing Astronaut gender qualifications seems a bit of a long-range issue.

Conceptually, though, I think having a mixed bag for Astronauts is a good thing.

With the shrinking of NASA's budget, it does seem unlikely that manned space missions are going to happen any time soon from the USA.

Still, what about other countries?

Female and Male Astronauts could potentially work in/for China?

Russia does have a small space tourism business as well.

Or is it illegal for American Astronauts to work for other country?

I can't imagine why it would be illegal. You would have to be careful with what sort of missions you went on and all, and I bet the State Department would want in on everything, but I can see it happening. Best way to do it is a joint mission.

We're already doing joint missions. So no, it's not in any way illegal for an American astronaut to go up in another country's shuttle. That sort of thing just tends to be decided between the specific space programs involved.

Yeah, but American Astronauts accepting another country's money?

Considering all the money, time and effort the USA invests to make sure these people know how to handdle themselves in space, a little commisson of Agent/Country? Fee seems appropriate though.

It's not illegal but it tends not to happen.

Our best bets are anything but America at this point. For one thing, America isn't going to install affirmative action for astronauts (and I wouldn't want them to do so) but decades of forced gender equality in China makes it probably the prime candidate to have a female astronaut versus other countries. My other bet would be ESA, since they tend to be more gender equal there than North America. But, it's not much of a difference, in my opinion between the three choices, since Russia already has actively trained female astronauts and in good numbers, so they could send up plenty right now if they wanted to do so... but they have no money.

High aspirations always have to come back down to money matters it seems.

Well, if not America, then China and Russia together(?) might be able to do it. They just need something that could potentially be worth more than the cost of a space mission.

Still, not too sure about China's forced gender equality or Russia's history of making Cosmonauts will help in supplying women astronauts. Do they have female Astronauts ready and standying by now?

@Natasel: America will be sending astronauts up on manned missions, they'll just be working in tandem with the Russian program since there's no funding for our own shuttles.

And I agree, China right now is in the best position to get female taikonauts up. (Russia used to have fairly strong gender equality, but The New Russia has taken a few giant steps backward in that area.)

edited 13th Feb '12 3:06:14 PM by Ramidel

Well China doesn't have affirmative action any more, so I expect their female candidacy to slip in the next decade or so, but they currently have a lot of heavy-engineering background women to pick from while it lasts. Russia has female astronauts right now. I don't know about ESA, I just figure a place like Europe has lots to choose from.

If China gave money to Russia, Russia could put up its female astronauts.

Right now China is engaged in setting up its own space station after getting spurned from participating in the ISS. So unfortunately we may have to wait some time for cooperation.

edited 13th Feb '12 5:40:37 PM by breadloaf

It wasn't so much as they were "spurned", but that they had no functional space program at the time of the ISS's conception. We didn't like the idea of having to basically give up the farm and share all of NASA's secrets for the Chinese to catch up to the point where they could contribute.

Of course the Chinese then went and hacked into NASA and stole the information anyways, but that is a different story.

I'm not aware of this hacking, could you link me to the news article about it?

I would think there would have been a greater stink about China hacking all of NASA's information. It's not impossible for them to have developed their stuff on their own, or even to arrive at roughly the same results in regards to some problems. They have intelligent people over there, too, Stars.

Pics Links or it didn't happen.

It's China. I'd need proof before I believed it DIDN'T happen.

They've stolen F-35 info, hacked the power grid, attacked deffense contractors and tried to take down Google.

All of which is well-known and well-publicized...

Well I've grown highly skeptical of all the stealing claims ever since Norton said its entire codebase was stolen by China, and it turned out to be completely false and made up but everyone was so willing to believe it that major media splashed that headline everywhere. Then it turns out, their networks were actually just breached by hackers (probably by an American competitor), going to show their software sucks to boot.

Now I need links to how they stole F-35 info, unless you're talking about China possibly recovering a stealth fighter from a crash site (which is not stealing, it's just unfortunate for America).

Then I need links on how they hacked the power grid. I'm unaware of any such attack. I know the American government has accused China of attempting to hack government websites and servers but not aware of any actual data or proof. Taking a government on its word is about as good either way (believing China didn't hack or believing America that China did hack, when both don't have proof). In fact, CIA/Mossad are the prime suspects for Stuxnet, a virus that actually did attack power grids and nuclear stations and was designed to cause real deaths.

Then I need links on how they "attacked" defence contractors. I'm not sure what you mean by attacked. Like they sent in burglars and roughed them up in the US? I mean, wouldn't it be strange for US defence contractors to be operating in China and therefore selling China the same technology? So that would mean that Chinese agents on US soil were attacking defence contractors. That's a pretty significant claim.

As for Google that one is well publicised. Hackers, originating from China, broke into a small part of a gmail server and stole some emails. My first thought would have been spammers, afterall that's what they do, break into email servers and steal emails so they can spam those people. Unfortunately, Google refused to release any details on the hacking, so I can't judge what exactly happened.

edited 15th Feb '12 8:51:32 AM by breadloaf

Links or it didn't happen.

Honestly, I don't think I'd be able to trust the site that ran that obviously fake story.

edited 15th Feb '12 3:22:43 PM by Loid

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/F35FighterComputerProgramHacked

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027491029837401.html

While they're not sure EXACTLY who did it, China's about the only one with the will and ability.

It's kind of dumb those computers can even BE hacked. They should be completely off-the-grid.

I meant attacked in the Cyber sense. Lockheed-Martin has reported they are under effectively constant attack.

edited 15th Feb '12 4:21:18 PM by Joesolo

So basically you said China did it but nothing you have shown says that. Anyway off-topic.

The issue is about female astronauts.

IMO, we shouldn't have discrimination either way; nor should we seek a whole 'WE MUST HAVE A FIFTY FIFTY RATIO' program. Otherwise you get people who aren't qualified on both sides. An astronaut should be someone with the qualifications, and their gender shouldn't even come into play. So unless there's active discrimination on the order of 'you can't go into space because you're a woman', then I don't see the problem with having a male-dominated space program.

And before someone goes and cries sexist on me, I'd like to point out I'm NOT saying that it's a GOOD thing, merely that it isn't a bad thing. If you score higher than someone else in the qualification test, you should go in, regardless of what chromosomes you were born with. I just don't want to see a system where, using a hypothetical example, two astronauts score 90s on their tests out of a 100, and one is a man and the other a woman, and one of them gets picked simply because they're a man or a woman.

I despise discrimination and double standards with a vengeance, so I think if you scored better on the test, you should get in. If you're tied with someone else, retake the test(s) until you aren't.

How are you defining 'you can't go into space because you're a woman', though? Sexism can get pretty intangible - it can exist in snap decisions on who you want to hire, in testing criteria that excessively favour men, and so on. That's why things like Affirmative Action exist - people tend not to hire purely on merit, or worse, to define 'merit' in excessively-gendered/ethnicised/whatever terms.

Well perhaps it's more that you want to have "blind" hiring process, or at least more blind. I liked the studies about musicians being hired into orchestras where you were not allowed to see the person or anything and judged them as they played behind a screen. Female chances of being hired sky rocketed, while male chances fell. Very telling.

Those studies are pretty interesting, as you quickly see the ratio even out to about 50-50; something you'd expect thanks to the whole 50-50(ish) ratio of the population.

I define it simply as a bias against women. In deciding who goes into space and who doesn't, there is no such thing as a snap decision; at least, IMO, there shouldn't because, you know, it's bloody space. You're getting strapped to a tin can filled with explosives and praying something doesn't go wrong; if something does go wrong, then you need to be able to fix it. Snap decisions on who goes can't be made when billions of dollars and dozens of lives are on the line. So if someone is discriminating against women, or anyone, be they man, woman, white, black, or orange, they should be replaced with someone who'll pick on who will do the best job, not who has a set of genes they feel would work.

edited 18th Feb '12 2:23:54 PM by AlexHumva