The Constructive Criticism Thread

@spudsabre

5. It's supposed to be more of a Wham Line than a "dramatic reveal". Seikatsu was the one who defeated the Dragon Lords long ago, and Eve is his Dragon Child.

6. Fixed.

9. Fixed. Tedrick's response also changed accordingly.

15. Fixed.

19. Well, I still need to receive feedback from at least three more users before my turn is over. Maybe they can help. I also changed Tedrick's response. Now he nearly Face Faults when Ren tells him there are twenty-five Dragon Children and the latter lampshades how that's a ridiculous number.

@electronic-tragedy I got rid of most of the exclamation points in Chapter 2. Not sure how much more I'd need to get rid of though.

Yeah, that 'Wham line' is what I meant. I just forget what it was called in troper-speak I concur.

edited 7th Feb '16 6:56:40 PM by spudsabre

Okay. But I can't think of any other way to make it work.

I think I can have a look at it myself soon. Soon as in, within a week. I believe I'm gonna be busy, but once I have time, I'll try.

Okay. Just three more reviews and I'll be good.

Yeah, this review look-through is long overdue.

I only have time at the moment for a look-over of chapter one. Remember, this is all just my opinion.

Technicalities:

1. Please Indent all new paragraphs, even dialogue.
2. Treat dialogue and dialogue tags like a sentence. For example: “No.” The boy said, almost out of breath. “I’m not here to fight you.” Should be: "No," the boy said, almost out of breath. "I'm not here to fight you".
3. There's just way too many exclamation points. At the beginning or end of dialogue, instead, write something like this: I yelled, "How the hell do you know that? And who the hell are you anyway?" Outside of dialogue, just tone it down, or find some other way to show that he's enraged.
4. "Hell" isn't a swear word—it's more on the level of damn which is a PG-rated curse. It's more of being a bad-mouth.

Overview:

To be honest, the opening scene and fights are weak. The scenes don't flow well, like you said. I think the problem is the lack of description, and lack of depth of anything. The opening prologue helped set up the world's old conflicts and such, but it just... fell flat at the first scene. While it's a good idea to begin close to the inciting incident, it doesn't work here at all. You'd really benefit from explaining or describing things a bit more. Because of how fast paced is, it's hard to grasp or even care about what's happening.

I think it'd help if you had the narrator's introductions a bit earlier, if not, before the fight with Ren. Ren needs a better description. You don't have to add a bunch of details but I'm at a loss to what he looks like.

Scenes sometimes move way too quickly, and jump to the next too quick as well. Slow down, and develop other things other than the plot— let the narrator talk about himself, the scenery, people he knows, what he knows—anything that helps build something, because at the moment, the plot has just begun and moves quickly.

Some lines are told flatly without any depth to them. And I have little reason to care about the characters. I know it's just the start, but, the main character isn't so much a Gary-Stu, but more like an immature adolescent to me.

1. I did. But in my Dropbox. I'll fix the Google Doc tomorrow.

2. Acknowdleged.

3. I'll cut back on the explanation points.

4. I know. I just don't want to use some real swear words.

Here's the thing. I like writing, but thanks to my Autism describing things in the eyes of someone I'm not is the hard part for me. My strong point is creating characters and world building. If there wasn't a rule against it I'd show you my character list.

Anyway, I've rewritten Chapter 1 and re-numbered the original five chapters. Now Chapter 1 introduces Tedrick and gives a glimpse into his backstory. But it's probably the weakest chapter now considering how short it is and the fact that a four month Time Skip occurs between the last line of dialogue and the last lines of narration.

To be honest, that's because I don't know how to make Inazuma finally allowing Tedrick to leave the Lightning Dimension work so early in the story. I plan on coming back to it later.

Let me know when you read the re-written Chapter 1 and Chapter 3 (originally Chapter 2) and give me an overview on them as well.

I've edited the Google Doc like I said. I've also made it so that people can comment on it. So if you have any ideas on how to improve the story just me know here and/or there.

Here's an updated version of the story. I'm not gonna provide a link because I'm still working on updating the rest.

(Prologue 1

Darkness. That was the first thing I remembered. It was dark, and it was cold. And I was scared.

But then I saw her. She looked so friendly and so positive. She seemed to chase the darkness away. And when she did, I wasn't scared anymore.

Why I was there and what I was meant to do. That I didn’t know. And a part of me wondered if I ever would.

I remember the look on their faces when I was born. Looks of happiness and pride. And a hint of relief and sentimentality. Have we met before? Or did my birth somehow bring back tender memories?

I remember how I discovered I was special. Pointed ears. Sharpened nails resembling claws. Large wings extending from between my shoulder blades. Green scales tracing along my body from the front of my neck to my arms, body and legs. And bright red eyes with narrow pupils.

I wasn’t the only one; they had those same qualities too, but they varied. Some had their wings attached to their arms, while others didn’t have wings at all. Each one had their own colored scales; gray, violet, purple and so much more. But their eyes were always one of three colors; yellow, blue or red.

I remember the almost immediate love I felt for every living thing I saw. I still do, but feeling it for the very first time was remarkable. The very first thing that came to mind when I first laid eyes on the human race was how they were so full of potential and possibilities. Each and every one of them, and all of life for that matter, has a totally unique experience. The sights they see, the sounds they hear, the lives they live. How could something like the concept of life be so complicated and yet so simple?

Well, I know. And I remember.

Memories. They too are a wonderful thing. If anyone ever tells you that some things are best left forgotten, please know that that is only a half-truth. You see, there will be times where forgetting isn’t the solution; forgiving is.

I was able to forgive her, but she couldn't forgive me.

My name is Seikatsu. How do I know this? She told me. That was all she ever told me. But then I remembered.

That was a long, long time ago. And ever since then, everything began to spiral into chaos.

Prologue 2

I hate this place. Hate it with all of my heart. Mom says I should’ve gotten used to this by now, but that’s a load of bullcrap if you ask me. I mean, how could anybody get used to being restricted like this?

I’m not a kid anymore. I’m sixteen, damn it. Lightning. A force of nature! And even if I wasn’t, I still don’t deserve this. I’m no criminal and this is no prison.

“Hey! Are you still asleep? Get up!”

Okay, it kinda is. But not an actual one. Still no excuse, Inazuma.

My muscles still sore from yesterday night, I slowly stand up.

“Rise and shine, Ted.”

I look to see him standing outside of the glass walls. A friendly yet sarcastic smirk on his face.

“Shut up, Denkō.” He may be my friend, but I’ve got no patience for him or his snarking today. Even his voice, which was calming to listen to for the most part, was pissing me off.

“Don’t be mean.” He tells me, not changing his attitude. “Your mom wants to see you.”

What does that bitch want now?

“Well, I don’t want to see her. So screw her and screw you too.”

“Aw, what’d I do?” That smirk is still on his face.

Looking at it makes me want to vomit.

“If it weren’t for you, I wouldn’t be here.”

“Hey, I’m the victim here.” He sounds a little more serious this time, but all it does is anger me even more. “You’re the one who went overboard.”

You sure about that? You’re not the one who's spent nearly their whole life locked up.

I’ve finally had enough of him and shout “Just let me out of here before I break out and rip your wings off!”

He goes back to his usual attitude. “And you wonder why you’re in there.” Denkō pulls out a key, unlocks the door and I stumble out of my prison. “Also, it was specially made to contain you so I doubt you could break out.”

“Seriously, shut up.”

That was four months ago.

I’ve decided to jot down my memories of my time there and here so that I won’t ever forget.

My name is Tedrick, and I am a Dragon Child.

Chapter 1

It happened on a Friday, March 11, 2016.

I was at one of those classic diners they have where everything looks like it was made on a tight budget. It had round seats, checkered floors, a huge table on your right hand side when you walk in, smaller tables with regular seats on your left, and a two sided door that leads to the kitchen where the large table was. All the waitresses there wear blue dresses with white aprons. I have yet to see one waiter.

It was still a bit early, probably like seven or something, so there was only about 6 other people there. And the smell of cooking eggs and bacon was enough to get me drooling before I even ordered my food.

I’m a regular there and come there for breakfast every Friday. I mean, what better way to start the weekend off than with breakfast at a place with food that looks 10 times better than the place?

“I’ll take another stack of buttermilk pancakes, please.” I told the waitress.

“Are you sure? You’ve already had three servings.” She sounds concerned. “You don’t want anything else?”

“It’s not my fault your pancakes are awesome.” I pulled out my money from my back pocket and counted it. I’ve got like forty dollars left. “But I guess something different wouldn’t hurt. What else do you have?”

“Well we’ve got scrambled eggs served with bacon, hash browns and orange juice.”

“Ooh, I’ll take that.” I haven’t eaten that in a month.

“No problem.” She smiles, writes down my order on her notebook and goes into the kitchen.

That’s weird. I thought I came in with a hundred. Did I really eat that much? I actually wasn’t expecting to spend so much on breakfast that day. In fact, I wasn’t even hungry anymore after the second stack. I just felt like eating for some reason.

If I knew I was gonna eat that much I would’ve picked other things besides pancakes. But they were just so sweet and fluffy I lost track of how much I ate until the waitress told me. I was already dirt poor as it was. I should’ve really kept track on how much I spent.

About 20 minutes later she came back with my food.

“Here you go.” She said cheerfully.

“Thank you.”

Fluffy yellow scrambled eggs, four large strips of crispy dark red bacon, toasty golden brown hash browns and and a medium glass of orange juice. They were all so rich and flavorful I had scarfed them down before I even knew what happened.

“Would you like anything else?” The waitress asked me when she came back.

“No. I’d like my bill now.” She leaves for several minutes before coming back with my bill. I opened up the black book it comes in and my eyes nearly popped out of my skull.

Forty-five dollars?! I can’t afford that!

I stay calm and call out to the waitress. “Um, excuse me?”

“Yes?”

“How does what I just ate cost forty-five dollars?”

“Fifteen dollars for the eggs, ten for the bacon, ten for the hash browns and ten for the orange juice.”

That’s ridiculous!

I try to explain my situation. “Well, I can’t pay for that…”

The waitress’ cheerful demeanor quickly turned dark. “I’m sorry.” She sounds defeated. “I’ll be right back.” She goes into the kitchen again. After a while she returns with a burly man about 5’8 with short brown hair who's wearing a suit. He must be the owner. He stares right at me, his eyebrows all scrunched up.

“Why is it that you can’t pay?” He says venomously.

My body began to heat up. “Well, she didn’t tell me how much it costs.”

“You didn’t ask.” She says nervously.

“Look, all I have is forty dollars.” I explain. “I don’t have an extra five.”

“Well, the price is forty-five. If you don’t pay, I’ll have to call the police.”

“What?!” I just said I can’t pay!

“You heard me! I’ve no tolerance for unruly teens like you! You think you can do whatever you want without consequences. People like you jeopardize my business. So either you cough up the money or I’ll have you arrested!”

My heart began to race. My muscles tensed up and I gripped the table. Chills ran through my body as my lightning traveled through me and dissipated just as suddenly as it appeared.

“How am I gonna ruin your business if I’m still freaking paying you to feed me? It doesn’t make sense. Neither is you being mad just because I’m five stupid dollars short! And what happened to ‘The Customer is Always Right’? Screw you!”

I can feel the people around us staring at us intently.

The owner turns to the waitress. “Barbara, call the cops!”

“Yes, sir!” She almost looks panicked as she picked up the diner’s phone.

My muscles were flexing and could feel the energy building up inside me. I couldn’t take it anymore. I had to leave or I’d hurt someone.

I turn around and burst out the door. I could hear the owner screaming “Get back here!” as I did.

Now outside and my body trembling, I looked around to see just how crowded it was that day. Everyone walking to work, cars driving in the streets and of course street vendors. Usually I don’t care how packed it can get. This IS New York after all. But this time, it was a disaster for me. I’d kill somebody if I let loose here!

I could hear someone approaching behind me. The owner or security no doubt. Using my super speed, I ran across the street and up the side of a building onto the roof. From there, I watched as the owner, pissed out of his mind, asked passersby if they’ve seen me. Of course they didn’t; I’m just too fast. I felt a bit satisfied seeing him try in vain to find me, but it wasn’t enough to ease my anger. Five dollars. Five freaking dollars!

I concentrated some of my energy to my legs and jumped from the roof to a wilderness on Fire Island, an island off the shore of Long Island.

At this point, my body is filled with so much pent up anger that I can barely move. I looked around. Nothing but pine trees for miles. Perfect!

I finally allow my anger to consume me. My body trembles and my muscles flex as my lightning flows through me. The energy my anger gave me made me feel like I could take on anybody. Like if I had become one with lightning itself. It continues to travel through me, making me feel more and more invincible with each passing second. Finally, having enjoyed the euphoria, I released my lightning in a series of brilliant flashing lights, scarring the trees around me and the ground beneath me with marks that resembled frost on a window. My anger and euphoria all melt away, leaving me feeling both sad and relieved.)

edited 24th Mar '16 4:01:27 PM by Sugarp1e1

This seems pretty intense, but I'm unsure exactly how the first prologue matters. Also, you might want to consult a punctuation guide; there are a few moments where dialogue is punctuated incorrectly, but just fixing those won't address the deeper problem the way a thorough understanding of the rules of grammar and punctuation would.

It feels like there are too many line breaks. Either conglomerate some paragraphs or just spend a bit more time on descriptions. What visuals I do see are enjoyable, but I feel like either being more specific or using stronger descriptors could help add to the atmosphere, especially in Prologue 2.

This is my first time reviewing here, so I could use feedback as well.

1. AAA! Birth scene birth scene! There is probably nothing wrong with starting a story with a birth scene. Ignore me.
2. Green scales tracing along my body from the front of my neck to my arms, body and legs. Visualization failure: On the chest? On the back?
3. Given how different this creature is, am I supposed to be starting with a human base?
4. please know that that is —> please know that it is.
   
   
5. Writing in present tense I see.
6. part, was pissing me —> is. Consistent tense.
   
   
7. She sounds concerned. —> sounded. Consistent tense.
8. Fifteen dollars for the eggs, ten for the bacon, ten for the hash browns and ten for the orange juice. Okay, there's some price inflation for you. Must be a fantasy currency system.
9. I try to explain my situation. —> tried. Consistent tense.
10. This guy is a regular, right? Tabs have not been invented.
11. Cheap diner has an owner in a suit on site.
12. Neither is you being —> Neither is your being.
13. flexing and could feel —> flexing and I could feel.
14. I turn around —> turned around.
15. an island off the shore of Long Island —> south of long island.
16. I assume those marks that resemble frost are black.
17. Sad and relieved but not exhausted.

I'm not really sure what to say at this point. It was okay, no obvious flaws. I wasn't hooked by either prologue or the first chapter. Or I should say I didn't notice any hooks. I can't yet see where this is going. You don't need to introduce the plot in the first chapter, though.

I also don't yet have a feel on the cast. Three viewpoint characters have been introduced by name and yet I don't know who they are, where they are, or what they are doing.

edited 24th Mar '16 11:31:17 AM by war877

@pablo360 The first Prolouge is meant to introduce the Big Good and describe what the dragons look like. It also provides some foreshadowing.

I'm still new to writing so...

@war877 1. LOL. Don't worry. All dragons are barren/sterile and hatch from eggs that are created via spontaneous generation. Oh, and they're born as eight year-olds.

2. I said the body, didn't I? That means the chest and back too.

3. Yeah. Our Dragons are Different is being played with here.

4. Fixed.

5. I'm still new to writing so...

6. Fixed.

7. Fixed.

8. Tedrick lampshades this. "That's ridiculous!"

9. Fixed.

10. What do you mean? The chapter's very first line explains that it's 2016.

11. There's a reason for that.

12. Fixed.

13. Fixed.

14. Fixed.

15. Fixed.

16. They are. Fixed.

17. Tedrick's exhaustion is addressed in the next chapter.

The original version of the story dove right into the action as soon as the first chapter began. I got reviews saying that it was moving too fast so I backed up a bit. The story and characterizations aren't supposed to pick up until the Dragon Lords are introduced. But I'm not sure when that should happen.

Full disclosure, I have already given my feedback to sugar by PM. I generally agree with the comments regarding the prologues. Sugar doesn't really settle into his/her style until the first chapter, when the action gets started. Why don't you provide everyone with a link to that, Sugar?

Okay, but I recommend that you don't read past the second chapter. I'm still working on it and the rest is still unedited from when I first wrote the story.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-F7tuQcAfkdH0l3ioq6oFxHn3xtzVTbjc9L1_I3Zx8A/edit?usp=docslist_api

@ Sugarp1e1: Sorry for the delay. Was on vacation.

1. Look at what you just told me. Look at what you wrote that I was commenting on. Visualization failure.

2.What you meant and what I saw were different. I will probably not be the only one.

3. Well, so long as there is a logic.

5. Consistency is the only rule here. As long as you have a system.

8. Just keep in mind, that a vanilla audience is going to be knocked off balance by such a ridiculous inflation amount. You will have to: Establish that ridiculous stuff happens in your universe, or explain it away sooner rather than later.

10. Keep in mind, a tab, rather than police, is the sane response in this situation. Your audience is going to notice.

11. If there's a reason, this is fine. But your audience is going to notice until you explain. They are also going to start wondering if the protagonist has a brain.

17. Excellent. But keep in mind, in most storytelling, emotions and status should be noted the moment that the viewpoint character notices them.

Most of those reviews were probably talking about action pacing. Which is separate from plot. So far, you have established a setting. A professional writer knows that unless they are doing something weird, some of the setting, some of the characters, and the first motion in your plot must all be introduced in the first two chapters.

A plot motion typically consists of a conflict (not a combat encounter). The first part of a plot motion is something going wrong (usually). You did have something go wrong at the diner. But then you proceeded to resolve it in chapter. This makes it an isolated story from your main narrative.

Or I could be completely confused.

edited 29th Mar '16 7:08:01 PM by war877

In the original manuscript that I read, the first plot point was another character (Ren) admitting that he staged the fight to test the values of the protagonist. That has been removed in the current version, thus probably adding to the confusion.

A bit off topic, who here speaks spanish?

My manuscript is in spanish, and I don't want to translate everything... it will be a freaking pain.

@Tomodachi: I know some Spanosh but it's a little rusty. You might want to put your work on the feedback waiting list, or at least give a criticism, though.

@war877 1. It's not important right now. It comes up later.

2. Fixed.

3. Okay.

5. Okay.

8. Okay.

10. The owner isn't supposed to be very reasonable.

11. Okay.

17. Okay.

The first chapter is supposed to be an Establishing Character Moment for our main character. He's impulsive and short-tempered, but tries to keep his anger under wraps so nobody gets hurt.

edited 6th Apr '16 9:39:52 AM by Sugarp1e1

So, how long will it be until someone can post something to review? I've got the bug. I want to review stuff.

@Sugarp1e1: I read your chapter 2, and will be happy to read over more if you fix most of your tense trouble ahead of time.

It was a pretty good chapter, so I do not have much to say. I could imagine the adversary riling up the protagonist with some slightly more piercing dialogue, but since I don't really have a feel for either character yet, I do not want to weigh in on how realistic the dialogue is yet.

In this chapter you clearly established the start of the plot, which addresses my former primary criticism nicely.

Sugarp1e1's turn can't be automatically ended right now because only 4 different people have reviewed the latest section, if that's considered where this turn "starts", but they can end their own turn any time if they feel they've gotten enough feedback. Then you can post away.

edited 14th Apr '16 3:07:49 AM by pablo360

We need to change the rules. Trying to follow them has killed the thread more than once.

I propose that a turn can end after one week at the choice of the person whose turn it is, and ends automatically after four weeks, with no further turn related rules.

Hopefully this wouldn't discourage people from reviewing, as they can simply wait it out. But a higher turnaround would keep interest up.

I would even make it two weeks instead of four.

Two weeks sounds good to me. After all, if someone doesn't get reviews from five people in two weeks, they probably won't get reviews from five people in two months. The Internet is a fickle mistress.