Are you fond of 'Shoot the Shaggy Dog'?

What do you think of stories where the hero is screwed over at the end and the journey had been completely and utterly pointless. These types of stories tend to waste the reader's time and investment. What do you think of such stories?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they "waste the reader's time and investment", but they're not something I like to read, or for that matter write.

I sometimes cut close. I find the concept itself to be amusing in a very dark way, but I always end up not doing it, for whatever reason.

I admit, as horrible as it may sound, there is a part of me that likes those stories, simply they are the most realistic. They capture something about reality that doesn't get much focus in other stories or at least not in a realistic manner. Not everything in life is resolved with a pat on the back, kiss from your true love and the championship trophy.

You will fail in life. You will fail over and over again. You will do things that will ultimately have been for nothing.

It's the cold, harsh truth, but it's a truth that we ultimately must face if you can truly say that they have lived a full life. That's just my thoughts on the subject, but I'm one of those guys who thinks that the ending of The Mist was amazing and who though it would have been fine had WALL-E "died".

I wouldn't have a problem with this were it not for the bolded part. The total failure of the Shoot the Shaggy Dog story is every bit as unrealistic as the complete happy ending (at least for the important characters) of more conventional Hollywood fare. Both happen in real life, but more likely then either is that you'll get a mixed bag of results, and that's what I personally prefer to write, at least in my "normal" works.

Also, and while this is just my opinion, I'd argue that many existing uses of Shoot the Shaggy Dog are every bit as "unrealistic" as the aforesaid Hollywood happy endings, relying heavily on Diabolus ex Machina and other contrivances, rather then letting the protagonists fail in anything resembling a natural fashion. I'll be the first to admit that just because some trope is often poorly done, doesn't mean it's bad, but I'd be hesitant about using the word "realistic" here.

edited 5th Feb '12 3:11:36 AM by nrjxll

Good point taken.

I love stories that rip my heart out and make me feel miserable, so... yeah. I don't really write such stories myself, though. Mostly because my focus is always on the Character Arc, so even when everything absolutely fails in the physical world, my character will still have arrived somewhere in their head.

I don't have a problem with them, as long as the ending doesn't come out of nowhere. Even if it does, I might not have a problem with it as long as it fits the tone of the series. A depressing work where the main character achieves a minor victory, only to randomly get screwed by something we've never heard of before wouldn't be so bad.

But I am a bit prejudiced in favor of it, if only because it's comparatively rare. After so many stories where the protagonists succeed despite the impossible situation they're in, downer endings still feel somewhat refreshing. They are just not a surprise anymore, to me.

My last experience with a piece of this kind was when my GF dragged me to see a romantic comedy with her two months or so ago. "We need to do things together" etc. etc and so on.

So we're watching this thing and it involves this girl, who is hot for this guy, who is a womanizer, and they sort of could have had something good going on but he insists to womanize instead. And we revisit them every year and see how now he's seeing someone, and now she's seeing someone, and then finally near the end of the movie they get together and get married.

Then she is run over by a truck and dies.

My girlfriend was staring at the screen for a good half a minute before she started crying. Later, when she was done gathering her thoughts, she said she does not want to watch a romantic comedy ever again.

So, all things considered, I approve.

No. It's a stupid trope.

In my opinion, of course.

I think it's acceptable when doing backstories. Some backstories will naturally be this, since they are not the main characters.

Backstories are fine.

But generally, many readers expect something to change for the better. One purpose of a story is to give hope to the reader. Despite everything that happened to the protagonist, he or she will still come out in one piece.

While Shoot the Shaggy Dog has its purposes...many readers don't prefer the bleakness.

No. I've read plenty of stories for school that feature this trope in order to, I guess, show the brutality of life, but they are not stories that I would go back to. Memorable, yes, but I do not enjoy pouring my heart and soul into a character only for it to be worth nothing. I like writing them even less because it just feels like I'm cheating the character.

I... like to play with this. Shoot the dog you were expecting, but provide a new puppy. This way, I try to keep readers with me, but still provide the shock value.

I don't really like it. It gives me that "Why did I sit through this?!" feeling (which is kind of bad because I feel this feeling with only one other type of story: stupid ones) and if it was well-done, I'll put it on that shelf of "Good, but I'm never watching/reading it again or recommending it to anyone." And considering my memory span, I will probably will have forgetting it exists in a month.

edited 5th Feb '12 9:48:33 AM by Kaxen

I'll admit that I am somewhat fond of this trope especially since some aspect of my own life is this trope. I could had avoided a lot of grief if I had made a lot of good decisions. I failed to do them because I was trying to yet if I did I could had avoided a ton of grief. It seem that is mostly about the journey rather than the destination even if you don't get the reward in the end, you didn however get some good character development out of it.

One thing is making bad decisions and learning about them. Another thing is getting screwed regardless of your decisions.

I admit, I sometimes enjoy watching the shaggy dog shoot itself. I hate seeing characters fail through no fault of their own, though.

This, I do agree with (like I said earlier, that's why I have a problem with most "real" Shoot the Shaggy Dog stories).

Personally, Shoot the Shaggy Dog stories only work when it's either a tragedy (where it's expected that the protagonist brought in onto him/herself) or a comedy (which is still risky). In most cases, it's failing the audience's expectations.

Yeah, that's my point.

edited 5th Feb '12 6:44:24 PM by Teraus

I'm rather fond of the trope. And it's a lot more realistic than a fully happy ending.

Um, no, it isn't. As I said earlier, neither total failure that makes things worse then before nor the "typical Hollywood" Super Ultra Mega Happy Ending is particularly common in real life when compared to more mixed results.

Really, like how Gray-and-Gray Morality can be considered the most accurate way to categorize Real Life morality (although it isn't that simple), Bittersweet Ending and the various shades is probably the most common result of Real Life "stories".

You can say it all you want, doesn't make it so. Hollywood happy endings, well, even if they did happen in real life, they never last for long.