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Rename: NEW CROWNER (Alt Titles 12-28-12): Asian Gal With White Guy get usage counts

We had a conversation about this in the TRS thread for Where Da White Women At?. Namely, someone wanted to change the name because it was offensive. And the call for a rename had precedent since this trope was changed from Me Love You Long Time for the exact same reason.

Ultimately Where Da White Women At? kept it's name and now we're here again because A) keeping THAT name and not changing this one creates a Double Standard and B) the trope has suffered Trope Decay into just listing Asian Girl/White guy couples and multiple inversions as opposed to the relationships where the problematic (or at least, what people in-universe find problematic) element.

So we're here again. Discuss.

edited 4th Feb '12 5:45:34 PM by MegaJ

 
 2 Martello, Sat, 4th Feb '12 4:51:41 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
Change it back to Me Love You Longtime. Done
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
[up] Support.

[Excised joke I think may, on second thought, have been in mildly poor taste - or at least insulting towards those with certain viewpoints in the above mentioned discussion. Discretion, valor, etc]

Seriously, though, it is an issue, but I'm not 100% sure the right solution is to play whiplash with past, voted on, and already done renames, at least not so casually.

Besides, the above mentioned solution only satisfies those who thought neither of those trope names were racist to begin with. Those who thought that Where Da White Women At? was racist will certainly not be satisfied with just returning Me Love You Long Time - quite the opposite, in fact.

Further, the new and old names for this trope sound like they're about completely different things; the current one at least sounds like what the trope is about. Me Love You Long Time made me think it had something to do with prostitution (but then, that was because I saw the movie)

edited 4th Feb '12 5:09:56 PM by Leaper

Anyone have a link to the previous discussion?

 6 Acebrock, Sat, 4th Feb '12 5:10:40 PM from So-Cal Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Also, before we do anything, let me finish my wick check of the first 50 of the Me Love You Long Time wicks that are still there (about 44% done).
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
I predict there will be a lot of Asian-prostitute-related misuse.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
 8 Dragon Quest Z, Sat, 4th Feb '12 5:12:13 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
"Change it back to Me Love You Longtime. Done"

1. That would make it a phrase as a title. Not a good idea.

2. As Leaper pointed out, "Me Love You Long Time made me think it had something to do with prostitution (but then, that was because I saw the movie)". For those familiar with the trope namer, it seems like something else.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
I've never seen the movie and I thought it was about Asian hookers initially.

Why would that even make a difference?

Hell, part of the trope should be related to the huge use of asian women as sex workers for white men.

That seems like a different trope altogether.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
 12 shimaspawn, Sat, 4th Feb '12 5:39:08 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Well, the Asian sex worker sterotype is where the negative bits of this trope came from in the first place. White service men going over seas, knocking up, and marrying Asian hookers.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
I don't think that is correct. The "war baby" phenomenon has nothing to do with prostitution.

edited 4th Feb '12 5:47:20 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
I do associate the former name with prostitution rather than the actual description. So while I'd support a rename, I'd prefer we not use that name.

The asian prostitute stereotype is part of this trope though, in the same way that the stereotypical black thug is a part of Where Da White Women At?: it's not a necessary component, but it is very common. Even in stories that don't take place overseas, the asian sex worker is a constantly-used trope. I can think of a Law & Order episode, in fact, where there was an entire sex trafficking ring which thrived on this trope.

edited 4th Feb '12 6:20:22 PM by KingZeal

 16 Acebrock, Sat, 4th Feb '12 6:19:36 PM from So-Cal Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Wick check on the first 50 wicks (not counting skips) leading to Me Love You Long Time, which still has over 160,

Correct: 4 (8%)

  • Bon Jovi: probably correct.
  • Bon Jovi: same as above
  • Corto Maltese: calling this one correct, but could be wrong about that.
  • Defiled Forever: Correct, I think. It's about an asian woman being rekjected by respectable men for carrying a half-asian/half-white child to term

Wrong: 25 (50%)

No Context Example: 10 (20%)

Unsure: 8 (16%)

Other: 3 (6%)

  • Advertising: Talks about ads on the page
  • A View to a Kill: Points out that same actress who said the trope naming line was in the movie
  • Flanderization: Talks about the misuse I suspected was going on on the page, and the supposed new trope def. On the other hand, the misuse I've found is in all sorts of directions.

Skipped:

I also missed Ad of Win, which, after noticing, I checked, and it went to a picture of an ad for chinese dating.

However, with about 50% probably wrong (at least), I think going with the old name is a terrible idea

edited 4th Feb '12 6:23:28 PM by Acebrock

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
 17 Dragon Quest Z, Sat, 4th Feb '12 6:22:48 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Okay, half misuse is enough to rename.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
[up]Admittedly, it's a bit hard to tell what misuse is from the new name and which is from old name having their wicks changed without thought.

edited 4th Feb '12 6:27:58 PM by MangaManiac

 19 Acebrock, Sat, 4th Feb '12 6:30:56 PM from So-Cal Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Actually those were unchanged wicks from the old name that I checked
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
A few points:

  • The "misuse" regarding asian prostitutes is not misuse at all, in my opinion. As I said before, the asian sex worker stereotype is part of this trope in the same way that the black slave, criminal or pimp is part of the Where Da White Women at dynamic. Separating the two is a mistake.
  • Misuse that involves "white guy with asian girl" is going to happen regardless of what we name it to.
  • Again, the trope is not inherently about "problems" with the relationship. Some of the ones being listed as "misuse" are examples in which one character is a white male with a fetish for asian women or vice-versa. That is PART of the trope! Just like Where Da White Women at, this trope is not inherently about the negatives in such a relationship, but the stereotypes which fuel the relationship. The difference between this trope and WDWWA is that this is not about a relationship that was villified—it's about a relationship that became fetishized because white men were assumed to have a power dynamic over asian women.

edited 4th Feb '12 7:04:45 PM by KingZeal

 21 Acebrock, Sat, 4th Feb '12 7:25:11 PM from So-Cal Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Then we need to figure out which definition we're going to use.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
I was about to say that some of the wrong examples were the trope being used correctly. Race Fetish does kinda play into the trope a little bit. Unless you were counting the examples in which a character not with an Asian gal and just commenting on how beautiful/exotic they were as Not an Example.
 
The core thing we need to look at is the power dynamic. The crux of this trope is that the relationship is inherently unequal. This can be done in several ways:

  1. The asian woman is a foreigner. This tends to automatically imply that she is becoming "westernized".
  2. The white male is a foreigner. This tends to invoke the Mighty Whitey dynamic.
  3. The asian woman is a sex worker.
  4. One of the persons in the relationship is fetishized. This may depend on what fetishes are being played upon, but the idea is that they see each other as a sum of their parts, not as a whole person.

edited 4th Feb '12 7:45:29 PM by KingZeal

 24 Acebrock, Sat, 4th Feb '12 7:45:29 PM from So-Cal Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Edit: not now, maybe later

edited 4th Feb '12 7:46:07 PM by Acebrock

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
 25 shimaspawn, Sat, 4th Feb '12 7:46:54 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up] No, that's slight overlap with Race Fetish but this also covers a lot of things that don't fall under that trope. Most tropes overlap at least a little with other tropes. It does not make them the same trope.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick

Alternative Titles: Me Love You Long Time
28th Dec '12 10:43:47 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
At issue:
This trope is about unequal relationships between Asian women and white men, in which the latter hold the power. It is NOT about:
  • Prostitution (Ok, that is sometimes part of it but not enough to deserve mentioning in the name)
  • Any relationships between Asians and white men. Thus, please do not add politically correct options to the crowner
Total posts: 544
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