Big problems: Big Breasts Big Deal

I could be in favor of broadening types 3, 4, and 5 to be about general attractiveness. It makes sense, but I would want to know that it is going to be done well. The new tropes that would result would need clever names for a start. How to name those tropes is not at all obvious and I hope that we would think about it long and hard, and come up with many examples for people to vote on, not just throw on the first descriptive name that someone suggests.

Writing these for general attractiveness as opposed to Buxom Is Better:

#1 Embarrassment

In fiction, due to Author Appeal, Hollywood Homely, and other factors, attractive characters are extremely common. Attractiveness can come in many forms, whether a supermodel, a star athlete with perfect muscles, Tall, Dark, and Handsome, a living embodiment of Buxom Is Better, or even a Starfish Alien with exceptionally bold tentacle coloration. Regardless of the exact nature of a character's attractive appearance, while cunning characters will usually seek to take advantage of this phenomena, other characters will react with embarrassment. These characters can become very flustered by being the focus of attention. Interestingly, this embarrasment will often be the greatest when the character who is giving them unwanted attention is a character they are interested in romantically. "Please don't stare" is a common statement from this character.

While this trait is most often associated with young, innocent characters, it can also be due to shyness, modesty, inexperience, or a psychological condition such as High-Functioning Autism. Typical character tropes likely to experience this include Reluctant Fanservice Girl, Shrinking Violet, Troubled, but Cute, and Yamato Nadeshiko, but it might also happen to any attractive character. For example, an older woman who has not lost her youthful beauty might be embarassed by discovering that she's now considered more attractive by some suitors than when she was younger.

#2 Resentment

In fiction, due to Author Appeal, Hollywood Homely, and other factors, attractive characters are extremely common. Attractiveness can come in many forms, whether a supermodel, a star athlete with perfect muscles, Tall, Dark, and Handsome, a living embodiment of Buxom Is Better, or even a Starfish Alien with exceptionally bold tentacle coloration. Regardless of the exact nature of a character's attractive appearance, while cunning characters will usually seek to take advantage of this phenomena, and innocent or shy characters will be embarrassed by it, on occasion a character will resent it.

This isn't just a case of embarrassment or indifference. The character doesn't just dislike others for paying their appearance too much attraction, but actively wishes they weren't as attractive because they've come to the conclusion that to be unusually attractive is to be Blessed with Suck. There might be many reasons for...

Hmm... I think we have this one already. This is So Beautiful, It's a Curse, yes?

#3 Indifference

In fiction, due to Author Appeal, Hollywood Homely, and other factors, attractive characters are extremely common. Attractiveness can come in many forms, whether a supermodel, a star athlete with perfect muscles, Tall, Dark, and Handsome, a living embodiment of Buxom Is Better, or even a Starfish Alien with exceptionally bold tentacle coloration. Regardless of the exact nature of a character's attractive appearance, while cunning characters will usually seek to take advantage of this phenomena, and innocent or shy characters will be embarrassed by it, on occasion a character simply won't care.

Often this character is a consummate professional who is well aware of the fact that they could use their "assets" to get what they want by other means, but feels that it would be unprofessional or beneath their dignity, and is instead focused on proving they can compete purely on skill, often to the exclusion of romantic opportunities. While they're not averse to dressing in sexy outfits, they don't plan on relying on or even exploiting their sex appeal - but the camera will often do that for them.

Other characters' indifference is not due to regarding relying on appearance to be beneath their dignity, but rather that they consider it to be unimportant. Typical examples might include a shapeshifter who considers their beauty to be a momentary state and thus unimportant, or a character that has a highly nontraditional outlook, such a Troubled, but Cute character or a Cloudcuckoolander who is socially functional enough to realize their own attractiveness, but does not care enough to take advantage of it or feel embarassed.

#4 Pride

In fiction, due to Author Appeal, Hollywood Homely, and other factors, attractive characters are extremely common. Attractiveness can come in many forms, whether a supermodel, a star athlete with perfect muscles, Tall, Dark, and Handsome, a living embodiment of Buxom Is Better, or even a Starfish Alien with exceptionally bold tentacle coloration. Regardless of the exact nature of a character's attractive appearance, some characters decide that if they've got an advantage, they might as well use it.

These characters are proud of their physical attractivenesss and view their physical form as a means to get what they want. Such characters are prone to parading their "assets" in the presence of company of appropriate gender and orientation, sometimes with a little extra bounce in their step, and may often brag about their appearance unknowingly in front of less fortunate, usually younger or self-conscious characters. Unlike more prim and proper characters, they will generally enjoy distracted admirers staring at them, as it makes them feel good about themselves.

#5 Ignorance

In fiction, characters come in all shapes an sizes. Due to Author Appeal, Hollywood Homely, and other factors, attractive characters are extremely common. But there's attractive, and there's startlingly attractive. Whether a supermodel, magazine centerfold, recreational or professional athlete with perfect sixpack abs, Tall, Dark, and Handsome, a living embodiment of Buxom Is Better, or even a Starfish Alien with exceptionally bold tentacle coloration, some characters' appearance gets them noticed, and not in a bad way. In comedies this will often be Turned Up To Eleven, to the point that they become a public safety hazard, as distracted pedestrians fail to watch where they're going whenever this character walks by. While an Innocent Fanservice Girl can generate this effect due to a lack of a nudity taboo, these characters are often sufficiently attractive that they can cause traffic accidents even when fully clothed.

While cunning characters will usually seek to take advantage of this phenomena, and innocent or shy characters will be embarrassed by it, on occasion a character won't even understand what's going on. They may even lampshade it by wondering aloud why they are a Weirdness Magnet. Usually, the character's obliviousness to their own attractiveness is due to being extremely naiive, innocent, or oblivious, but it's also possible they may be from a culture that doesn't regard them as exceptionally beautiful, an inexperienced shapeshifter who chose their form to blend in and is wondering if people are becoming suspicious, or a Cloudcuckoolander who finds many ordinary things confusing. An adorkable character, Broken Bird, etc., might not realize that they can't hide their appearance behind awkward style or personal "issues".

Regardless, a character who fits this trope is portrayed as starlingly attractive in - universe, and yet they seem to be completely unaware that others find them so.

edited 5th Feb '12 8:30:04 PM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

Very well done. I could support this whole trope being broadened in that way, with descriptions like that, as one trope or several. We would still need a name for the modified trope or tropes.

The only issue that I see is that the types of Big Breasts Big Deal are only subtropes of this new broadened trope if we assume Buxom Is Better is in effect. Technically, there could be examples of Big Breasts Big Deal that are completely disconnected from attractiveness, meaning characters who have large breasts but are not attractive in-universe. Assuming that Buxom Is Better is not a universal trope, there must be some cases like that. However it is probably very rare to find any type of Big Breasts Big Deal where Buxom Is Better is not in effect, even type 2. If I'm wrong about that and there are important examples of Big Breasts Big Deal that wouldn't work under the "attractiveness" version, then maybe we shouldn't make the change.

Actually, Buxom Is Better is rarely in effect with large chested characters even if they are meant to be attractive. That trope has a very specific definition and it's not "large breasts are hot."

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I find that hard to believe. Naturally I'm sure there are many cases of large breasted characters where Buxom Is Better does not apply, but that is far from what you are claiming. Surely a majority of cases of large breasted characters are in works aiming for Buxom Is Better, and even more so when the size of her breasts is mentioned in the work, not merely a design element or a feature of an actress.

If it is really true that Buxom Is Better is rarely in effect for large breasted characters, then this trope is only very loosely connected to attractiveness and we have no business replacing it with an attractiveness trope. It wouldn't be an expansion, but a complete change of direction.

Have you actually read that page? It's about a situation being lampshaded In-Universe that having larger breasts makes a girl prettier. Maybe one in a hundred large chested girls actually counts as the trope. Probably less than that.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Of course I know what Buxom Is Better is, but seeing it stated like that, I will have to retract my support for the attractiveness variation on this trope.

shimaspawn is right that this trope was never really connected to attractiveness at all. Only one in a hundred large-chested girls are considered attractive for it in-universe, so turning this trope into a trope about attractiveness would effectively be deleting this trope from the site, which is something I can't support.

bump

Should we YKTTW the trope(s) for general appearance?

Clocking due to lack of activity.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

FYI, the generalized YKTTWs are here:

• Prideful Beauty Proud Beauty
• Awkward Beauty
• Indifferent Beauty
• Ignorant Beauty Oblivious Beauty

EDIT: proposed trope name change.

edited 23rd Apr '12 12:12:37 PM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

We're missing Resentful Beauty, unless we're going to use So Beautiful, It's a Curse for that.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

My thinking was So Beautiful, It's a Curse covered it. ("An admittedly attractive character (almost always female) remarks on how their beauty is a drawback")

If others disagree, I'll be happy to add "Resentful Beauty" to YKTTW.

• EDIT: "A Curse", not "Acurse"

edited 18th Apr '12 8:39:31 PM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

Yeah, I think So Beautiful, It's a Curse covers that.

I think so too.

It should probably be mentioned that those tropes aren't actually generalizations of Big Breasts Big Deal. They are quite separate tropes that are only loosely connected to Big Breasts Big Deal. I have nothing against those tropes, but I hope they won't replace this trope.

In defense of Type II, there are legitimate reasons to actively resent large breasts beyond the bad attention. Health concerns like back pain, for instance.

We don't need to get rid of this page, but it needs to be severely limited in scope. Has anyone seen the play with page for this? It's kinda ridiculous.

edited 6th May '12 2:47:33 PM by captainpat

.... I didn't even know that the trope got its own Playing With Wiki page. You're right, it is ridiculous!

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I'll semi-agree with this, if only because I saw the Oblivious Beauty YKTTW, saw the list of other YKTT Ws, saw they were being "split" from Big Breasts Big Deal, and thought "WHAT?!?"

But we all agree to move the Big Breasts Big Deal examples that apply to those tropes, right?

Anyone have any ideas for what Big Breasts Big Deal should cover?

Whatever's left once once we move examples to the new tropes. If the new tropes cover everything, Big Breasts Bug Deal needn't cover anything.

Agreed. In the unlikely event that every example of Big Breasts Big Deal is also an example of one or more of the new tropes, then there really is no need for Big Breasts Big Deal at all.

Have any of the YKTT Ws been launched?

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.