General Page Quote Discussion:

I also like it. I don't think quotes from tropers are something we want normally, but in this case I think it serves as a pretty good example.

I don't just think it should be cut because precedent says so, I think precedent says so because it should be cut. Quoting yourself is super weak. Even the best argument about how that's not what it is doesn't take it out of the same ballpark.

edited 24th Jun '15 10:06:02 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Er, I'm not entirely sure you understand what "precedent" means.

There's already tons of precedent that we don't do troper quotes. There's also some precedent that things that violate policy can be kept, but generally not created, if they were around before the policy was implemented and there's a consensus that it's worth keeping, usually due to Witty.

Whatever we do with this, it'll contribute to one side or the other of that matter. And there are few enough examples of grandfathering things that I don't think this is going to start some massive grandfathering revolution.

tl;dr I don't think it's going to revolutionize the wiki regardless of what we decide. This one might be worth a vote at this point, since my passive-aggressive snark seems to have convinced a couple of people to weigh in.

EDIT: I went ahead and created a crowner for the hell of it.

edited 25th Jun '15 9:21:29 AM by SolipSchism

Of course I do, but either way my intended meaning was perfectly clear: I don't think the reason it should be cut is because it has been done that way in the past, I think it has been done that way in the past because there are reasons to cut it. It was a response to nrjxll's eminently reasonable sentiment that "tradition" is not a good defense against the argument that an exception should be made, clarifying that no, I think there are lots of good defenses and I didn't mean to imply that one. I don't understand why you think I was addressing you, or why you felt compelled to correct me.

Given that the meaning was obvious, that must have been intentionally patronizing. Please stop.

_v I didn't assume anything. An assumption is a belief without premise, without evidence for it. I described my thought process precisely. There is no moral obligation to assume good faith when bad faith has been demonstrated. (Perhaps I reached an incorrect conclusion, but I definitely didn't assume it.)

edited 25th Jun '15 1:00:57 PM by rodneyAnonymous

rodney, the first rule of having a civil conversation on an internet forum is to not assume malicious intent. I wasn't being patronizing and I don't appreciate being accused of it, or ordered to "stop" doing something I wasn't doing in the first place.

Following from that, the first rule of effective communication in any medium is that it doesn't matter how clear your point is to you, what matters is whether it's clear to the receiving party. And it wasn't "perfectly clear" to me, and you have no business telling me what is "perfectly clear" to me, otherwise I wouldn't have responded the way I did. Nevertheless, you've now made your opinion perfectly clear. Can we chill out and have a conversation instead of Snark-to-Snark Combat now, please?

EDIT: I'm done with this argument. If you're going to order me never to talk to you, ever, then you have no business stealth-editing backwards replies to my comments that I'm "obligated" to ignore.

edited 25th Jun '15 1:08:14 PM by SolipSchism

Interservice Rivalry should definitely stick with the first quote.

I looked around for better Hassle-Free Hotwire quotes, but generally the only time characters actually discuss hotwiring is when they're having difficulty with it, so it's tough.

I thought maybe we could just quote the instructions from one of the GTA games, like so:

"To hotwire a vehicle faster, repeatedly press LT or RT." —Grand Theft Auto IV

Because the epitome of a hassle-free hotwire would have to be buttonmashing, no?

In other news, But I Read a Book About It has two page quotes and I vastly prefer the first one — the second is drawn from Real Life, impersonal, extremely dry, and doesn't really capture the trope, IMO.

The first one would be better if it threw in a parenthetical about the fact that Fraser is about to attempt to fly a crashing plane, though.

ETA: About Pariah Prisoner — I kind of think the two-quote thing works, just because the juxtaposition of the academic analysis and the actual prisoner is kind of nice.

edited 25th Jun '15 10:17:38 PM by calmestofdoves

Update: I Do Not Own crowner is currently at 3:1 with 6 nays (keep the quote) to 2 yeas (change or kill it).

Barring a good reason to do otherwise (such as extensive further discussion, new information, or mod fiat), I'mma go with the rule of thumb we follow in the Real Life thread, which is 48 hours and 2:1 majority before calling it.

But I Read a Book About It has two quotes. The second one is a Wall of Text, so my votes goes to the first one.

Oh, definitely keep the first one.

I Do Not Own crowner hasn't changed since my last update. I'm going to add a note to I Do Not Own, just in case another troper happens upon it.

I've found a possible quote for Insatiable Newlyweds. Here are the lyrics to a song from One Hour with You:

What a little thing
like a wedding ring can do
It allows a thrill
when we start to bill and coo
I can squeeze you here
I can squeeze you there
And I'm never told to handle with care
I don't have to stop when I kiss your hand
It's lawful
Oh, it's grand!

edited 29th Jun '15 8:12:29 PM by jayoungr

I like it!

Thanks! So, can I add the quote, or do I need to clear it with someone first?

Our idea of "consensus" in this thread usually amounts to one or two agreements and no dissent. If people start aguing about it then more discussion may be necessary, but I don't see anyone complaining, so you should be good to go.

For what it's worth, I like it.

Any opinions on my GTA instructions idea for Hassle-Free Hotwire? General consensus seemed to be that neither of the two quotes currently on the page was very evocative.

ETA: Although it does look like someone at least trimmed the song lyrics, so now there's just the Family Guy quote, which still isn't actually about a hassle-free hotwire, it's about Stewie expecting one and not getting one.

edited 1st Jul '15 6:00:36 PM by calmestofdoves

You Shall Not Pass! is just quoting the trope namer, not informing the trope.

I found this poem in the Literature section of You Shall Not Pass!:

Maybe not as pithy as it could be, but pretty, and apt!

edited 2nd Jul '15 2:44:22 AM by calmestofdoves

I like it, and certainly more descriptive than the current quote.

Minus the very first part with the entry explanation, anyway.

—-

On another note, Literature.The General has a bunch of quotes at the top, and none of them really do much to actually talk about the series. I don't have any quotes offhand, but I think that the ones currently there could all stand to be moved to the (not yet existing) quotes page.

Moved the Trope Namer quote from Main.You Shall Not Pass to Quotes.You Shall Not Pass and put the Horatius poem on the Main page, where it now matches the illustration, which is also of Horatius holding the bridge.

The one issue I have is that neither Lays of Ancient Rome nor its author Lord Macaulay have pages on TV Tropes. Putting an external link in a page quote seemed about as unsightly as using an external link for a trope image pothole, and red links are ugly, so I just cited —"Horatius," Lays of Ancient Rome and called it good. Let me know if there's a problem with that?

Then you make a red link for the work, with the appropriate namespace, and perhaps make such a page later. See Frequen Redlins.

Er, *Frequent Redlinks.

Yeah, my goof. This is why a preview button on the forums would be nice.

Amen to that. 99% of all my posts end up appended with edited 38th Mon '38 25:08:14 FM by SolipSchism

Case in point.

edited 2nd Jul '15 12:34:32 PM by SolipSchism

Red Link added to poem quote on Main.You Shall Not Pass.

Seriously though, can I get even one reaction to my Hassle-Free Hotwire proposal? Even if it's a big fat no!