Critical Snowclone Failure (NEW CROWNER): Tall Dark And Bishoujo

Deadlock Clock: 30th Apr 2012 11:59:00 PM
Total posts: [144]
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This has got to be one of the most awkward snowclones on the site. The connection between this trope and Tall, Dark, and Handsome is minimal and best, and painfully shoehorned at worst. Also, you know a trope name is bad when there's a bold inflated notice on the page telling you "this trope is not X, it's Y," something that would not need to be there if the trope had an actual intuitive name.

On a side note, this trope seems to collect a lot of Zero Context Examples; we should do something about that.
Well, there are over a thousand wicks and 800 inbounds, so I think it warrants a wick check before renaming. That said, I will note that as anecdotal evidence goes, the aloofness part of the trope only seems to be adhered to because it's such a popular combination rather than because people fully grasp the trope.
Please show some evidence of misuse.
First 20 wicks:

Are you noticing a pattern?

EDIT: I might do more tomorrow, but not tonight. My troping tank is on "E" right now.

edited 22nd Jan '12 8:01:17 PM by MyTimingIsOff

5 Deboss22nd Jan 2012 09:40:09 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
It's one of those pain in the ass physical descriptors tropes.
Hm. I'd say both of the Amagami examples are correct usage. The Hibiki one is correct, and if I remember who the second one is talking about correctly, she is also a correct example. Probably on accident, but still a correct example.
7 Servbot23rd Jan 2012 03:18:13 AM , Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Ame-iro Kouchakan Kandan is correct. Aloof girl with long, dark hair, that makes other girls swoon? Yup, that's the trope in a nut shell.
Dragon Writer
BTW, the phrase "Critical Snowclone Failure" is Made of Win.

edited 23rd Jan '12 9:18:55 AM by Stratadrake

The making other girls swoon bit seems optional. It's tall, dark haired and aloof. Tend to be busty too, but I guess that bit is optional.
Dark hair is optional as well, judging by the description.

EDIT: I should also mention that if you read the example list, you'll see quite a bit of "X is a blonde example" and other Word Crufty garbage like that.

edited 23rd Jan '12 1:24:41 PM by MyTimingIsOff

The physical requirements are a matter of discussion rather than something to be unilaterally declared. I do feel that the trope is normally for dark hair, though not necessarily black. Purple, dark blue or brown would also work.

Anyway, are we going to get a more complete wick check?
Here's some more:

edited 23rd Jan '12 2:44:31 PM by MyTimingIsOff

Why aren't we looking at the examples list? Lets grab the first ten in each category.

    open/close all folders 

    Anime and Manga 
  • Fullmetal Alchemist:
    • Olivier Mira Armstrong, who is blonde but has all the other aspects. Correct, interestingly ignores the physical in favor of the personality
    • Lust, who is tall, aloof, and has the characteristic long, black hair as well. Correct
  • Akira in ARIA (pictured). Correct, though might need more explanation
  • Early example: Reika from Aim for the Ace!! is the aloof, gorgeous and talented star player of the tennis theme that is the Onee-sama for the newbies and Even the Girls Want Her. Correct
  • Azuma Hazuki in Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito, for whom the term was created, with Yuri Fans checking to see if anyone else fits the pattern. Correct
  • Ayla from Battle Athletes. Don't know
  • Tenjou Utena in Revolutionary Girl Utena, one of the early incarnations of this character type — except for her hair, which is pink in the anime and strawberry-blonde in the manga.Correct as being perceived as this in universe
    • There's no doubt the she is perceived as this by her schoolmates (with all that Even the Girls Want Her aura), but she isn't aloof at all. Juri from the same series is a much better example, although she has orange Princess Curls.
  • Sakaki in Azumanga Daioh is a subversion - her apparent aloofness is really because she's a Shrinking Violet, in spite of her physical appearance. Correct, she is treated as this in universe
  • Himemiya Chikane in Kannazuki no Miko, complete with blond and Moe Shrinking Violet girlfriend (Himeko). Don't Know, but probably correct
  • Mima in Perfect Blue despite having short dark hair. Don't Know
  • Shion, Mion, Rena, and Miyo in Higurashi.
    • Sans the stereotypical brunette hair. Don't Know but probably correct

  • Silhouette from Watchmen (she even has a cute nurse girlfriend) in spite of her bobbed hairstyle. Don't Know
  • To some extent, Liz Sherman. She had long hair in the first film; it was cut into a bob by the second. Don't Know
  • The Baroness from G.I. Joe. Correct
  • Elizabeth Swan in Pirates of the Caribbean Maybe... if you squint
  • Miho (Devon Aoki) from Sin City, aside from the tall part, fits this perfectly. The comic version has shorter hair but is otherwise identical. Correct
  • Lady Sif in Thor. Don't Know
  • Mo Banjoree in Lemonade Mouth Don't Know
  • Matsu in the Female Prisoner Scorpion series Don't Know

  • Violet Baudelaire from A Series of Unfortunate Events. A little young for this
  • Vidia from the Disney Fairies series. Don't Know
  • Bellatrix Lestrange from Harry Potter. Correct, although that was before the creepy and crazy
  • Susan Pevensie from Chronicles of Narnia. Not Really
  • Polgara the Sorceress from The Belgariad, oh so very much. Correct, oh so very much so
  • Blanche Ingram from Jane Eyre has the looks, but her personality is more Rich Bitch than "alluringly aloof." Notes how she doesn't fit the personality trope
  • Eugenie Danglars from The Count of Monte Cristo. Might be correct, depends on which version of Countof Monte Cristo.
  • Mirtai from The Elenium nails ALL the traits of the trope, but still doesn't quite qualify. Why? Her other traits... Notes how she doesn't fit the trope
  • Susan Sto Helit and Adora Belle Dearheart from Discworld. Don't Know
  • China Sorrows from Skulduggery Pleasant is very much this trope: she's tall, beautiful, dark-haired, aloof, and can make men and women fall head-over-heels in love with her. Sounds correct

    Live-Action TV 

  • Megurine Luka, one of the Vocaloids, was designed with this image in mind... except her hair, which is pink like that of the previously mentioned Utena. Probably Correct
  • Cliff Richard's hit song "Devil Woman" is about this kind of woman. Correct

    Video Games 

    Visual Novels 
  • Miku in A Profile. She appears to be fairly popular with guys because of it, but is largely uninterested in them since she already loves someone else. Don't Know, but sounds correct
  • Kaya from Aoi Shiro as well as a milder version in Ayashiro. Don't Know
  • Tsugumi Komachi in Ever17. Don't Know
  • Misaki in Canvas 2. Don't Know
  • Sena from Chaos;Head. Don't Know
  • Rider in Fate/stay night embraces this trope. And her true Master was actually Sakura, a Yamato Nadeshiko girl. Don't Know
    • As does Rin Tohsaka, who despite being a bit on the shorter side, more than makes up for it with the rest of her reputation, personality, and appearance. Probably correct
  • Orihime in Kara no Shoujo who is tall, elegant, aloof and refined. She's also highly repressed and ends up starting a prostitution ring involving herself and girls that she knows who feel the same way. Don't Know, but sounds like she might be
  • Natsuhi from Umineko no Naku Koro ni. Would probably be an adult counterpart to The Ojou if she didn't have a tendency to get upset and yell at people so easily. Don't Know
  • Mai in Kanon, with the "undeserved delinquent reputation" variant. Don't Know, but probably correct

    Western Animation 

Might be some issues (although as a side note the anime/manga examples which are the vast majority seem pretty solid). However, it doesn't seem to be a problem with people overly focused on the physical aspects. Just the usual attempt to shoehorn your favorite character into every trope you can stuff.

edited 23rd Jan '12 7:29:25 PM by Sackett

14 Cider23rd Jan 2012 07:38:28 PM from Not New York , Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
Yeah, is bisho underage, or at least young aged demographic? That alone is enough for me to suggest a name change because the title is wrong as this is an appearance trope, one I admit, makes little sense to me but still its an appearance trope, not a demographics trope.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Well, I'll help you sort out those.

From anime, the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni example doesn't appear to grasp the trope. I'd say they're all wrong except for Miyo, who is blond. Mion and Shion are both pretty outgoing and Rena is neither tall nor aloof.

For visual novels, the A Profile, Canvas 2, Chaos;Head, and Fate/stay night examples are correct. Well Rider part of the FSN example is. The Tohsaka part is not correct, since being tall is definitely part of the trope and she's of average height. However, the judging by what is written the actual intent of the trope is understood, meaning a blatantly shoehorned example. Kara no Shoujo is correct and so are the Umineko no Naku Koro ni and Kanon examples.

For Western Animation, the Danny Phantom example is incorrect.

Edit: As a side note, none of these girls has any fangirls to speak of. I also detect some overlap with Sugar-and-Ice Personality.

edited 23rd Jan '12 7:41:18 PM by Arha

16 Cider23rd Jan 2012 07:42:38 PM from Not New York , Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
To be honest I don't really like the trope description at all. "She's aloof and therefore attracts a large following" are directly contradictory to each other.

I'd really say we drop the gender and appearance together. Limit this to aloof characters who end up with a posse/groupies whatever anyway.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Why is that so contradictory? Also, the way you want to redefine it completely changes the trope. The point isn't that they get fangirls: That's actually optional. The point is that they're tall, stoic and aloof. Usually dark haired too.

edited 23rd Jan '12 7:47:42 PM by Arha

18 Cider23rd Jan 2012 10:44:21 PM from Not New York , Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
To be aloof is to be distant, that's why its contradictory. And change the trope? If the concept is a lot broader than what it's been pigeonholed into then why not? This is the repair shop. Character who is aloof but gains themselves hanger ons despite it doesn't seem like something limited to tall girls. The way this trope gets used its not part of the bisho demographic anyway(Torrie Wilson? Then again that's just plain misuse because she's hardly "aloof")
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
19 shimaspawn23rd Jan 2012 10:46:58 PM from Here and Now , Relationship Status: In your bunk
That's not what aloof means. Aloof means that a character is above the petty squabbles of other characters. It doesn't mean she can't be admired and that she can't be popular, but she's likely to only have a few true friends. Most of her hangers on are just going to be admiring her from afar.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
20 NoirGrimoir24th Jan 2012 12:04:51 AM from San Diego, CA , Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
She's usually The Ojou Ice Queen or Aloof Big Sister, and often has an Instant Fanclub who admires her, which she largely ignores, but people worship her anyway. Also probably on the School Council.

I'm wondering if this isn't just a subtype of The Ojou, really.

edited 24th Jan '12 12:05:22 AM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
In Literature, Susan from Discworld doesn't fit the physical description: her hair is white.
It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
22 Deboss24th Jan 2012 01:42:25 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Purple, dark blue or brown would also work.

Purple Is the New Black.

Hm, being a subtrope of The Ojou seems likely. Possibly a derivative based on giving a specific look and personality based on being The Ojou and then the look and personality broke off of The Ojou specifically?
23 DragonQuestZ24th Jan 2012 01:52:23 AM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
[up]That trope just means purple being used to highlight black in certain cases. It doesn't really relate to hair color.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
24 Deboss24th Jan 2012 02:07:05 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Dammit, I was positive we had that trope for purple or dark blue being used instead of black.
Cure Candy
It was folded into Purple Is the New Black sometime ago IIRC. It is very prevalent in anime since the animation is done via black lines so Black hair with Black lines lose detail in the hair so its Dark Purple or Dark Blue (rarely Dark Green)

edited 24th Jan '12 5:05:06 AM by Raso

Alternative Titles: Tall Dark And Bishoujo
19th Dec '12 8:34:19 PM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:

Total posts: 144
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