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Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#51: Jan 23rd 2012 at 9:50:54 PM

So fat people should be expected to commit to a herculanean effort to do something that is possibly (probably) detrimental to their health in order to be accepted in society.

You're misinterpreting what that study said. It is neither near-impossible nor detrimental to lose weight, it's just difficult and unhealthy to do it by dieting.

Anyway, it's not very profitable for an airline to let other passengers suck it up, since people are so complaint- and refund-happy these days. They care about having customers return. I'd love to see them make bigger seats with more legroom, but until then, it's only fair that the people of morbid dimensions get an extra seat.

You are a blowfish.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#52: Jan 23rd 2012 at 9:57:40 PM

I was not talking about that paper in particular when I said that it takes a hurculeanean effort to do something detrimental to health to keep weight off. (However, any study that shows that just encourages people to try harder).

Don't get me wrong, I would love to get rid of corn subsidies and make healthy food available to everyone, have everyone who's able to have space and time to exercise, etc, and become healthy and happy individuals. I just don't think that even with all of that, anything short of hacking off limbs will cause most people to lose significant amounts of weight.

Now there's an idea for getting more people on airplanes...

edited 23rd Jan '12 10:00:07 PM by ohsointocats

Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#53: Jan 23rd 2012 at 10:03:39 PM

How is eating properly and taking care not to be sedentary detrimental? Whatever. Never mind. This isn't the topic. We're discussing why other people should bear the brunt of someone else's problem. As in, why should I, on my transatlantic flight for which I paid roughly $1000, have to deal with touching someone's sweaty-ass gut that reeks of intertrigo.

You are a blowfish.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#54: Jan 23rd 2012 at 10:05:01 PM

I'm not saying that people shouldn't take care of themselves. I am just saying that taking care of onesself does not require losing weight.

Also, airplanes are creating this problem for themselves. They already have seats smaller than a standard set in 1960.

I don't understand why I have to be jabbed in the face by sweaty tall men's arms all the time on flights, but nobody is telling them to buy a second seat.

edited 23rd Jan '12 10:06:42 PM by ohsointocats

Vericrat Like this, but brown. from .0000001 seconds ago Since: Oct, 2011
Like this, but brown.
#55: Jan 23rd 2012 at 10:51:30 PM

Actually if someone is incapable of fitting in one seat for any reason I would suggest they have to buy a second seat. If the number of people who need to buy a second seat rises enough, airlines will have to make the seats bigger to keep their profits maximized.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#56: Jan 23rd 2012 at 11:03:09 PM

I would appreciate it if everyone who was unable to fit comfortably in the space afforded to them in an aircraft had to buy a second seat. Though I am medically obese, I am still a small person and am probably one of the few people who fit comfortably on airplane seats. However the way this is being enforced is heavily biased against fat people rather than anyone who can't fit in a single airline seat, and as long as fat people can be used as scapegoats for having seats that are too small for everyone, society is going to allow it.

drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#57: Jan 23rd 2012 at 11:05:01 PM

@OP: As a nominally skinny-assed motherfucker, let me give my own two cents.

For one, I think that if you take up more than one seat of space, you should be on the hook for the space your ass takes up. I mean, on an airplane space is at a premium, and if your ass is leaking out of the space you paid for, it's encroaching on space someone else just like you has paid for.

That said...there needs to be a fucking standard as to what a "seat's" worth of space actually is. I mean, I feel cramped on some flights *

, and if a guy with a 28-inch waistline gets claustrophobic, someone is officially doing it wrong. And that someone is the profit-hogging assholes at your local airline.

For serious; we need to reign these fuckers in a bit and put a positive limit on how much space a human being is allowed to take up, lest they cramp even the anorexic in their desire to wring every last ounce of profit from the limited space available aboard their flying machines.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#58: Jan 23rd 2012 at 11:05:15 PM

Considering that most Americans are overweight nowadays, I think they're going to lose more money than they make in bumping up prices based on size.

Edit: Also, this happened to my mother. They charged her extra for being overweight, but did not actually give her a second seat.

edited 23rd Jan '12 11:08:20 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#59: Jan 23rd 2012 at 11:08:44 PM

[up] What happened to your mother should be a crime.

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#60: Jan 23rd 2012 at 11:09:03 PM

Let's leave weight/healthyness/how-impossible-it-is-to-accomplish-when-you're-poor to another thread and focus on the very specific problem of airline seats and fat people.

"well, the problem I see with a couple rows of bigger seats is much like the issues with handicap stalls in public bathrooms. People will flock to those seats due to the larger size of them, and take them away from the people who legitimately need them. Unless the airlines enforced rules allowing only larger people to sit in them."

Which I don't see a problem with permitted no people require those seats. To compare it to the handicap stalls you mentioned: if there ain't no one who needs em, why not let others use them? Charge slightly more per seat for them and give them a fancy name like "premium economy platinum class" and give priority to those who would require two seats otherwise.

It's not only getting rid of the bad buzz surrounding the too-fat-two-seat policy but also allowing you to charge more per seat for a row or two which will fill up because everyone wants more room.

"It's not the airlines job to be fair. It's the airline's job to ensure they get the money they need, and if it effectively costs them more to fly fat people than skinny bastards, they can and probably should charge more"

I'm certainly not talking about fair, I'm talking about good business relations with your customers. With air travel you're looking for price/comfort. Fat people are neither happy with the price or the comfort, and others are not happy with having to sit next to these people (which happens anyway, despite you paying for two seats) so it makes perfect sense to have options to rid your planes of this problem. Hell, advertise that these seats are available and that your prices haven't increased and I can guarantee you'll make more money.

"If we have #3, who is going to decide which fat people are fat through no fault of their own and who are entirely at fault for their fat, and if there's anybody inbetween, and who would pay for it if it wasn't the fat person's fault, anyway?"

A doctor's note most likely.

"On the other hand, you could say it would be a good incentive for people to lose weight."

As I said before, let's take it to another thread if we feel like discussing this further, but I'll just say that out of all the reasons why I should lose weight, cheaper air travel is not very high on the list.

"The obvious answer to this is to go commit first-degree homicide against the corn subsidiaries and stick a big old excise tax on anything that remotely looks like fast food (or is otherwise unhealthy at the grocery store) and let economics slim everyone down."

I can barely afford that cheap food, if you make it more expensive I can't eat.

"If the airline simply makes larger seats/allows them to take up two seats instead of selling it, they lose money."

Which clearly has outweighed the fear of upsetting customers so far. With a concentrated effort of "we're not taking this BS" that could be tipped more in the customer's favor, however.

edited 23rd Jan '12 11:09:51 PM by thatguythere47

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#61: Jan 23rd 2012 at 11:14:18 PM

@Cats: Yeah, she's boycotting the airline that did it.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#62: Jan 23rd 2012 at 11:20:08 PM

@thatguy: someone needs to simply force the airlines to put a value -in inches- on what a "seat" actually means to a customer. if they want to charge people extra for taking up more than value X, they need to first define what X is.

The argument here is independent of fat people; sooner or later (sooner, from what I've experienced on airlines these days) "normal" people are going to get impacted by the business practices of airlines. I say, let's make them define just what we're purchasing for our money; after all, I'm paying for a certain amount of space when I fly. Right now, that's a very ephemeral value and I don't think that's really right.

I want to know exactly what my rights are as a paying customer, and I don't think that's an unfair question.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#63: Jan 24th 2012 at 12:44:07 AM

Gonna take something from the previous page:

These people who are being told to purchase an extra ticket to seat their double-wide bum are being told this as they are boarding the plane. One could say that this is justified because an attendant would not be able to tell whether the double-wide bum would fit beforehand. However, the fact of this is that they're implying that there are empty seats on the flight to buy.

OK, so: first, make big people book two seats when they're actually buying those seats instead of when they're boarding. If you're buying your seats online, you should see a notice saying that "if your ass is wider than [limit], you need to buy book seats; failure to do so will result in a fine" or something like that. Now, even if they're fined, they still get to board the plane and make someone (in addition to themself, obviously,) uncomfortable; but at least they'll remember to book two seats next time.

And now I'm gonna propose a more complicated bit to be included in the system.

Make people who need extra space book two seats, but only charge them for one seat initially. Then, if the flight is full except for the extra seats reserved for overweight passengers, stop selling tickets and charge the overweight people for their extra seats. (So they'd be sent a bill for the second seat at a later point, while the first seat would be paid in advance as usual.) Arrange them so that they have room in the plane; the flight attendants can take care of this.

If the flight isn't booked full, give the overweight passengers their extra seats without an additional charge.

That way, the airline doesn't lose out and no one has to sit too uncomfortably, and the overweight passengers only lose if the plane would've otherwise been booked full and they would've been on someone else's seat.

Oh, and by the way, I agree that the seats are too small. A couple of inches should be added to all airline seats, and if that means that fewer people can be crammed into a plane, then the prices are just gonna have to go up a bit.

And another "oh, BTW": Someone said that people who don't wanna fly always have the option of driving (and by implication taking the train and so on.) That only goes for the cases where you can travel by land, though. Intercontinental passengers would have to take a boat if they don't wanna fly, and that's just slow as hell. For intercontinental flights, at least, accommodations would have to be made.

edited 24th Jan '12 12:46:35 AM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#64: Jan 24th 2012 at 1:01:20 AM

[up]

Someone said that people who don't wanna fly always have the option of driving (and by implication taking the train and so on.) That only goes for the cases where you can travel by land, though. Intercontinental passengers would have to take a boat if they don't wanna fly, and that's just slow as hell. For intercontinental flights, at least, accommodations would have to be made.

...and you're stuck if you're going from Heathrow-Sydney, for example — that is something that'll take months overland.

Apparently, the seats aren't designed for everyone anyway — they're designed for a certain percentile of the population (about 7/10, or something like that). Presumably, the same problem exists on bus seats (I've heard enough complaints about them, from too little legroom, to being too hard, vandalism etc...) and car seats as well.

Keep Rolling On
Drakyndra Her with the hat from Somewhere Since: Jan, 2001
Her with the hat
#65: Jan 24th 2012 at 5:54:43 AM

Charge slightly more per seat for them and give them a fancy name like "premium economy platinum class" and give priority to those who would require two seats otherwise.

For the record, there are some airlines that already have something like this going on. They aren't two-seats larger, but they do have additional legroom and space around them. I know this because my Mum shelled out for them when we flew over to the United States, because there was no way we wanted to deal with tiny airline seats on a 14 hour flight, and neither of us is very big at all.

Current airline seating is tolerable for relatively short flights (a couple of hours at most), but completely ridiculous for anything longer

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Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#66: Jan 29th 2012 at 8:52:20 PM
Thumped: Extreme positions taken just for the lulz do not work here.
Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#67: Feb 7th 2012 at 12:22:54 AM

Based on [up]. Politically correct version [down]

An object (person or pine trees, matters not) with more mass requires more energy/fuel expended to move.

A limited, enclosed space (air plane) can not hold objects of greater volume than its own.

Until the above laws of physics can be broken, larger customers will have to pay more.

edited 7th Feb '12 3:54:29 AM by Natasel

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