Rename; named after a work: Sidetracked By The Gold Saucer

As noted in this thread, Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer is not that healthy of a trope, despite its age and its noted prevalence in many games. Also, we are moving away from work-specific names, and the Gold Saucer in Final Fantasy VII was hardly so important in this regard as to become the standby reference for this, even in the specific Final Fantasy fandom.

I propose a rename to simply Sidetracked By The Minigame; it gets to the heart of the trope immediately.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

It has 131 wicks and 226 inbounds. That seems healthy enough to me.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Actually, Golden Saucer (which is responsible for the name of this trope as well), was noted to be unhealthy and in need of a better name. If that trope is changed, it only seems reasonable to rename this one as well.

We could always keep the current name as a redirect.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

It's a fairly common occurrance, frequently noted in reviews of games with unrelated minigames contained therein. I think it could be listed more frequently than is currently done on trope pages. That's aside from the "trope non-indicitavely named after a work" issue.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

Eh, I'm disinclined to rename here if usage is healthy. Even if you don't know what the Gold Saucer is, "Sidetracked By" is pretty indicative.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

My bigger concern is that the page should really be YMMV. It's an Audience Reaction.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

It is YMMV already.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Supporting a rename, if only because "Minigame" works better in the title. No, I'm not a FFVII hater.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

I don't know what "golden saucer" is a reference to, but "sidetracked by the..." is pretty indicative.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Supporting a rename. If you haven't played Final Fantasy VII, there's no way you can figure this out.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

"Golden Saucer" referring to minigames (a key part of the definition) is a FF 7-specific reference, without it all you have is "sidetracked by [something]" which only implies part of the trope.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Rename. Should be an obvious change with the trope it's named after being renamed.

"Sidetracked by" implies the trope. The "Gold Saucer" is going to be clear from the context.

I mean, is there any actual misuse? I find it very hard to believe that this name is at all confusing or opaque.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Well, Sidetracked By The Minizone Area is at least as clear. And Golden Saucer (should be Gold Saucer but isn't) is going to be renamed, meaning all we know is that it's something about being sidetracked. For all anyone knows it's about being sidetracked by treasure or something.

I think it's irrelevant whether or not there is another trope called Golden Saucer.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

I'm pretty sure it's not named after that other trope. If anything, it's the other way around.

Tropes that clone themselves off of another trope are also generally renamed when the original is renamed. For example, when The Libby became Alpha Bitch a project started to think up new names for the tropes based off of it like Lovable Libby, which became Lovable Alpha Bitch, I think.

^ You can't be sidetracked by a thing that doesn't exist. Am I somehow misunderstanding what you're saying? This trope's name is clearly based off of Golden Saucer, or at least has the same origin.

edited 22nd Jan '12 1:58:56 PM by Arha

Same origin, yeah. Snowclones? Not at all.

The Gold Saucer is an amusement park in Final Fantasy VII where there are many minigames the player can play. Some of them so addictive that many players got "sidetracked" from the main game, at least until they needed more Gil from the monsters outside to keep playing (explanation for all those who don't know what the Gold Saucer is). Both pages have the origin there, but it's not a snowclone (or "related trope") thing.

Now, about renaming Golden Saucer, the thread started because the name is Gold Saucer, not Golden. While it's not all that indicative by itself I didn't care too much about that since it didn't have misuse, but I at least wanted to get the name right. We can't have a wrong Trope Namer, right?

About this one? Well, I don't think a rename would be bad. Not because the name comes from the same source as Golden Saucer or because Golden Saucer is being renamed. It's just that it doesn't have to be a zone for minigames what sidetracks from the game, just one minigame is enough, and it doesn't have to be restricted to a particular zone. It could be Sidetracked By Triple Triad or Sidetracked By Blitzball if it had been named after FFVIII or FFX instead of FFVII.

So while I don't oppose a rename I do oppose doing it for wrong reasons, like saying that it's a snowclone when snowclones are a completely different thing than what we have at hands. Or saying that "you can't be sidetracked by something that doesn't exist" when that is completely false.

edited 22nd Jan '12 2:34:28 PM by DrMcNinja

There are no heroes left in Man.

Nothing about gold saucer gives any indication that it's a minizone area. How old is FFVII again? I know I never played the thing. I did play FFX, so I would at least recognize it if it was Blitzball. However, that wouldn't make it any better of a name. If Golden Saucer had been Blitzball instead and gotten a rename, I'd also support renaming this one. In fact, I'd say to rename it anyway because it's a reference to an old game that is only getting older and that people are less and less likely to play as time goes on.

And 'you can't be sidetracked by something that doesn't exist' means this trope is based on Gold Saucer. If Gold Saucer wasn't a trope, this trope would not exist either. I have absolutely no idea how you interpreted that statement, though I'll admit it may not have been very clear.

edited 22nd Jan '12 2:36:58 PM by Arha

What I'm saying is that Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer it's NOT based on the trope Golden Saucer. It's based on the game. I understood you perfectly, but your statements are wrong. I don't mind a rename, but this trope isn't named after another trope. It's named after an amusement park in a game. If Golden Saucer didn't exist this trope could exist with the name it has right now perfectly.

I understand you prefer clarity in the name, and I don't mind that. In fact I'm saying that the Gold Saucer can be a bit misleading because the thing that gets the attention from the players is not an area (which is what the Gold Saucer is). It's a minigame, which doesn't have to be restricted to an area (like Triple Triad), and it just needs to be ONE minigame doing the sidetracking, not many of them.

But, to be honest, there are no other reasons to rename and I wouldn't mind if the name stays as it is right now.

edited 22nd Jan '12 2:51:57 PM by DrMcNinja

There are no heroes left in Man.

Okay, let me try one more time. Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer is based on the trope Golden Saucer whatever Golden Saucer may be called. Thus, if we're saying that Golden Saucer is actually properly called Minigame Zone or whatever, any tropes that are based in concept on it should reflect that. If some trope (which we will call Golden Saucer) did not exist, there could be no trope about being sidetracked by it.

edited 22nd Jan '12 2:58:02 PM by Arha

Wrong again. To make it easier this trope is A and the other is B. A is NOT based on B. If B didn't exist A would still be a trope anyone can understand with no problems. If B gets renamed we can still understand B. Whatever happens with B doesn't affect A in the slightest.

This is not like The Libby and Former Friend of The Libby (or whatever the name was). This is two tropes that happen to draw the name from the same source.

With another example, imagine the trope Blitzball Stadium about strange stadiums, and Blitzball for strange sports. They draw the name from the same source. They are not snowclones. The first is not based on the second and viceversa. Whatever happens to the first doesn't affect the second and viceversa.

I hope I made it clear now.

There are no heroes left in Man.

I'm tired of rephrasing my argument to try and make you understand that I'm not talking about snowclones, so I'm not going to continue debating it with you. Suffice to say, I say rename as it's a reference to an old game that is difficult to decipher without knowing said game.

"Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer is based on the trope Golden Saucer whatever Golden Saucer may be called."

It is trivially true that the trope Distracted By A Minigame Thing is "based on" the trope Minigame Thing. That is irrelevant to their titles.

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"...difficult to decipher without knowing said game."

Disagree: I don't know the game and had no problem deciphering it. Maybe it would be hard if it were just "...Gold Saucer", but the "Distracted by the..." part filled me in. Any remaining ambiguity would still have to be explained by the rest of the article, regardless of its title.

edited 22nd Jan '12 3:22:34 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

No, all that tells you is that it's about getting sidetracked by something. What if Distracted by the Sexy was, I don't know, Distracted By The Snake because it was named after an example of the trope where someone wearing a dress patterned after snakes pulled the trope. Or something equally unrelated to what's actually going on. The name only tells you half of what you need to know.