Wizard vs. Ninja

Would you say that it'd be plausible for a ninja (With all of the standard Hollywood ninja tricks i.e. wall run, flash step) to win a fight with a sorcerer who has power over the four elements (fire, water, wind, and earth)? How limited would you need to make the sorcerer's powers (As of now, he can create fire, but needs a source of air, earth, and water)? How would you think the scene would play out?

But Don't Forget Knuckles O'Shaughnessy!

Yes. You just need to be smarter than the wizard.

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It's possible for a man with a handgun and enough sense to do that. Chances are that no matter what the power, there is an easily exploitable method of defeating it if the protagonist is just smart (or cheap) enough.

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial

All the arcane power in the world is meaningless if you never see your enemy coming.

Ninja sneaks up, stabs wizard in the back of the neck. End scene.

What's precedent ever done for us?

Both are traditionally Glass Cannons, so it'd be a short fight either way.

Seems to me like the ninja would have a lot more of an edge in combat than the wizard. I can see the fight playing out already:

Wizard: I call upon the power of FI-hrrrrrk!

Ninjas — as I see them — are fast, stealthy, and deadly at any range. Close up, they've got swords, knives, and good ol' fashioned punches/kicks. At long range, they've got shuriken, kunai, maybe a bow and arrow, and maybe some ninja magic. I'd be more worried about the wizard than the ninja...unless of course, this is one souped-up spellcaster.

edited 20th Jan '12 5:25:00 PM by Voltech44

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Just how realistic a ninja are we talking about here?

Presuming the magic isn't stupidly limited, any spellcaster worth mentioning will have a "make things traveling at me rapidly stop before they hit me" spell active basically constantly, barring structural constraints to that within the system of magic itself.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

There's a lot of "ifs" in that sentence, buddy.

Although I'd also expect the wizard to win in a fair fight - of course, the ninja shouldn't be trying for one of those in the first place.

Well, since this is the kind of nonsensical match-up Deadliest Warrior runs on, I'm presuming that the magic is decently powerful, in which case such a spell shouldn't be terribly difficult to keep going.

Of course, I sense the implication that the ninja is supposed to win, so I also expect the deck to be stacked in the ninja's favor.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

Is the wizard in question a Kung-Fu Wizard? If not, I agree with Voltech.

edited 20th Jan '12 5:44:18 PM by burnpsy

But what about Ninja Wizards?

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

I'm personally of the opinion that this whole thing really misses the point of a ninja.

It depends entirely on the specifics. Is elemental control all the magic can do, or are there other classical 'magic' effects? Is air control strong enough to deflect projectiles? Does every effect have to be consciously initiated, or could the wizard just cast a spell to make the air automatically deflect anything away? How experienced in combat is the wizard? *

By 'standard ninja magic' do you mean 'Hollywood ninja', or do you mean Naruto ninja?

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)

Depends on quite a bit. How powerful the wizard is, how clever the ninja is, how much each wants to kill the other, bloodlust, fighting spirit, etc. I think, though, that it would be in the ninja's best interest to go for a surprise ambush, rather than facing the wizard in open combat, since ninjas are just assassins, when you get down to it; most assassins work from the shadows. If you want someone to fight the wizard without any deception or trickery, use a magically-immune fighter.

Is this ninja a Mage Killer? If not, you may want to make him one, if the wizard is highly dangerous; you would probably need special equipment and experience to take down an especially potent spellcaster.

Ninjas should be sneaking up and killing off-guard targets rather than winning straight up fights anyway, so the Ninja should win if he gets that first strike, but in a straight up duel the Wizard should have it.

to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee

Well, you'd think if the wizard wasn't brain-dead idiotic and knew there were ninjas afoot as a generality that he'd have something prepared beforehand...

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

Exactly. This should never happen as a straight-up fight, at least not from the ninja's perspective.

Though, again, are we talking realistic ninjas here or not?

Which, again, depends on the capabilities of the magic system. I know if I got my hands on a magic system that had any form of combat-useful Geometric Magic or similar, I would be getting a decent aerobic workout walking around with all the amulets I'd carry, but if that's not possible then your options are severely more limited.

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)

Well, if it's a magic ninja, then that's basically just a wizard with ninja training, so my money would be on the ninja. Though, in that case, I'd still say the ninja should sneak up on the wizard, since I don't think he'd be as powerful in a straight up magical fight.

edited 20th Jan '12 9:36:58 PM by tropetown

I'm not necessarily saying it's a magic ninja, but there's a distinction between real-life ninja and the kind you see in Hollywood. The former are going to avoid a stand-up fight at all costs - not so much the latter.

Well, if I recall my Japanese history correctly... and my Japanese history fu is shit, mind you... real life ninjas were just samurai paid to dress up as commoners and thus "blend in" to the point of being invisible—because that's just how low they thought of commoners.

'Course, until you were getting stabbed by one that wasn't really a commoner, but whatever.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

Then, if it's just a difference of tactics, whichever ninja is able to avoid a direct confrontation will win, though again, it will depend on the power of the wizard, and how practical the magic is in a fight.

edited 20th Jan '12 9:49:27 PM by tropetown

I'm thinking of Quan Chi vs Scorpion here.

This discussion is pretty meaningless. Discussing who would win a fight between a great white shark and a killer whale would make sense; both exist, and both have well-defined and extensively studied size, strength, speed and behaviour patterns. But this is the equivalent of discussing whether a unicorn would beat a griffin.

Wizards, and ninjas of the kind we're talking about here, don't exist; hence, their strengths and weaknesses are whatever the author wants them to be. This is not to say that it's stupid to ask for advice on how to write such a fight (as the OP did), but the thread seems to have rapidly turned into a simple "who would win" discussion, which is nonsensical.

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