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Badass tropes - currently on (titles crowner 7/21/14): Big Badass Bird Of Prey get usage counts

Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.

Here's a courtesy link: TRS page. And Badass page with its subtropes.

Noted Problems include:

  • Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
  • Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
  • Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.

Suggested things to do include:
  • Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
  • Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
  • Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.

There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.

edited 3rd Feb '13 1:06:28 AM by lu127

 51 Jimmmyman 10, Sun, 8th Jan '12 6:16:53 AM from polan Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
cannot into space
Didn't think of that before... you're right. Action Survivor s are often badasses, but they aren't always this. Therefore, they don't belong in this index.

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.
 52 Deboss, Sun, 8th Jan '12 7:34:41 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
It just felt like The Everyman thrown in a situation that kills off mooks, and that making them badass. If a character is an everyman and rises to the occasion, they're not an Action Survivor, that sounds more like a Badass In The Rough type of situation. My experience with Action Survivor is that they're still an everyman at the end of the story, they've just been through a traumatic experience.
 53 Madrugada, Sun, 8th Jan '12 9:06:11 AM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
I fear that we may need to go back to the very foundation of this set of tropes: What exactly do we mean by "badass"?

I think that there are at least three definitions being used:

  • Kicks ass physically at the drop of a hat
  • "Awesome" (I have grown to hate that word. It's become so broadly applied as to be meaningless.) or "cool" (And ditto for that one.)
  • Someone who is not to be messed with or taken lightly, even though they don't go around being threatening or imposing all the time.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
 54 Noir Grimoir, Sun, 8th Jan '12 2:15:44 PM from San Diego, CA
Rabid Fujoshi
[up]I've always been bothered by the vagueness of what a badass is as well. The page implies it's a character who runs off Rule of Cool but that isn't exactly how it's used here. Usually it's used as 'someone who kicks-ass in some particular field, be it literal ass-kicking or being a really good doctor or driver or scientist, etc."
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Badass is even looser defined than that. Honestly, the common factor seems to be 'This person is present in a fight and I like them.'

Badass was originally described to me as "The guy who can handle a fight." Usually that means he's a good fighter, but there are some exceptions. For example, Lelouch of Code Geass is a Squishy Wizard, but he doesn't blink in the face of gunfire.
Should we open that whole mess up of what exactly badass means, or put that on the back burner for now?

I would argue Lelouch is not a badass because he's more of a chessmaster than that. If he's on the battlefield, he has probably messed up somehow. I think two things a badass needs are confidence and competence.

edited 8th Jan '12 3:58:34 PM by Arha

 58 Deboss, Sun, 8th Jan '12 4:16:02 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I'm personally willing to restrict it to the ability to handle themselves in a fight, as that's among the most common trait I can see.
 59 nrjxll, Sun, 8th Jan '12 4:25:16 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I'd say put it on the backburner.

Anyway, do we at least have consensus on Action Hero, Agent Peacock, and Adaptational Badass?

I could also see the concept of "send the big badass to negotiate because he'll be able to intimidate the opposition into giving us what we want" type of thing.

This isn't the same trope as Ambadassador, though.

 60 Jimmmyman 10, Sun, 8th Jan '12 4:29:19 PM from polan Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
cannot into space
Action Hero, yes, Agent Peacock, yes, Adaptational Badass, Possible rename.
Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.
 61 nrjxll, Sun, 8th Jan '12 4:32:11 PM Relationship Status: Not war
Action Hero, yes, Agent Peacock, yes, Adaptational Badass, Possible rename.

Right. Do we all agree on this?

^^^ Yeah. When going forward, anything we don't agree on should get put onto a second list rather than us sitting around and arguing about it. We can deal with them later.

 63 Deboss, Sun, 8th Jan '12 4:50:08 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Yup, making the move.

Edit: Maddie, can you do the thing where you force this into TRS, attach it to the page, and then move it back so we have a clickable link at the top?

edited 8th Jan '12 4:50:58 PM by Deboss

 64 Deboss, Sun, 8th Jan '12 4:59:11 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Tropes moved. Action Hero, Ageant Peacock and Adaptational Badass all move to the "leave alone" section. Other two moved to a "look at again section".

Next batch:

  • Almighty Janitor: He may have the lowest rank but can kick more ass than his superiors. (remove, this doesn't belong here)
  • Asskicking Pose: Awesome and sometimes flashy, by the way did we mention that you're probably about to get your ass kicked afterwards. (keep as is, it's a pose designed to show how badass a character is)
  • Awesome Aussie: The coolest thing to come from down under. (standard stereotype for an Australian badass, or at least it should be)
  • Badass Adorable: Okay, they're cute. Don't think they can't turn you into a pool of your blood. (contrast)
 65 nrjxll, Sun, 8th Jan '12 5:00:50 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I'd question whether Asskicking Pose and Badass Arm-Fold should really be considered Badass tropes as such. I kind of want to limited the tropes listed under Badass to actual subtropes.

Agree on the rest.

Almighty Janitor is not a badass trope. Aussie and Adorable tropes both fit by being a common character type and a specific contrast.

The poses would probably go on the same kind of index that Badass Longcoat would: Something that is not a person but is used to indicate that someone is a badass.

edited 8th Jan '12 5:01:31 PM by Arha

 67 Deboss, Sun, 8th Jan '12 5:27:08 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
That's just a result of Badass being used as both a noun and an adjective. In most cases, the tropes will be a "this trait/prop shows this character is the badass". For instance, a Batman Cold Open or something where the very first thing we see a character do is destroy a corkwood of mooks.
 68 nrjxll, Sun, 8th Jan '12 5:28:35 PM Relationship Status: Not war
So are you suggesting that Batman Cold Open be added to the Badass tropes, then?

 69 Deboss, Sun, 8th Jan '12 5:39:02 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Whoops, I was thinking of Action Prologue, my bad.
 70 nrjxll, Sun, 8th Jan '12 5:41:50 PM Relationship Status: Not war
Action Prologue, then. The point is, I feel like all these Establishing Badassery tropes should be treated the same - so if things like Asskicking Pose belong on this list, so too does Action Prologue.

 71 Deboss, Sun, 8th Jan '12 5:46:32 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
We could launch it as a subindex?
 72 Madrugada, Sun, 8th Jan '12 6:32:00 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
I like the idea of a subindex for Badass Establishing Markers or whatever we want to call it. I've been fighting a holding action on Badass Longcoat for over a year now, and I'm still regularly cleaning out new examples that are all about what a Badass the character is, and then conclude with "He has one." That should be where Asskicking Pose and Badass Armfold should go.

Otherwise: Almighty Janitor is not a badass trope. He has clout within whatever organization is involved, but that doesn't make him a badass.

Awesome Aussie and Badass Adorable can stay, but both need to be clarified that they're character types that are badass in a particular way, not simply Badasss and "from Australia" or Badass and "adorable in some way".

And we should have a clickable link and a page tag now.

edited 8th Jan '12 7:00:04 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
 73 nrjxll, Sun, 8th Jan '12 6:36:57 PM Relationship Status: Not war
So, all in favor of creating a "Badass Indicators" index?

 74 Noir Grimoir, Sun, 8th Jan '12 6:42:10 PM from San Diego, CA
Rabid Fujoshi
I like someone's suggestion that all the props indicating a badass be turned into X Of Badass rather than Badass X.

Agree that Almighty Janitor doesn't belong on the list. Asskicking Pose and Badass Arm-Fold are proper tropes but should be in a subindex or soft split from the characters. Agree Awesome Aussie is a specific character type that is obligated to be badass and Badass Adorable is a subversion tropes. I'm iffy on their current names, but I won't push for a rename on them unless someone else has similar feelings about them.

edited 8th Jan '12 6:43:41 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
 75 Deboss, Sun, 8th Jan '12 6:43:53 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Yah.

Alternative Titles: Big Badass Bird Of Prey
19th Jul '14 10:30:12 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:
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