about NunsAreMikos: Nuns Are Mikos

I think this trope may need a little more detail on what the typical miko does. The description is pretty scanty, and might lead to any non traditional nun in anime being added under examples.

We've already got the Miko article.

Seems fine to me this trope is Japanese works getting things wrong because it doesnt actually exist much in Japan, sometimes there so they draw on the nearest comparable source a Miko. So you might get a nun dating and other stuff random stuff wrong Yuri all girl catholic schools it's extremely common. (Rare when any work actually get nearly everything right like Maria Holic.)

Far more excusable than Artistic Licence Church in say an American show.

edited 5th Jan '12 9:58:24 PM by Raso

Maybe we should move some of the Miko description to the Nuns Are Mikos article to flesh it out?

That would end up having to be a long unneeded writeup on Catholic anything vs Shinto. This trope is not contained in just Mikos.

edited 5th Jan '12 10:07:02 PM by Raso

Hmm, the description says clearly it's about Nuns being portrayed like Mikos but the way it is actually used is when Anime portrays any western thing the same as a Japanese equivalent, even though certain aspects of the comparison are incorrect or unusual. So like Raso said, nuns dating, priests doing Shinto-like rights. Assassins are basically the same as ninja, Knights are Samurai, etc. Catholic services are the same as Buddhist or Shinto-type worship. Nuns and Mikos is just the most common and the most obvious instance of this, since Nuns and Mikos are actually very different, whereas, say Knights and Samurai are so close it's rare something where they actually do differ comes up.

edited 5th Jan '12 10:23:11 PM by NoirGrimoir

I wasn't thinking of expanding it like that I was talking about just more beyond Nuns and Mikos like Priests, Churches, the whole shabang. But that is a very good point there.

The examples though do seem to have degenerated into any instances of Catholic church in Japanese media that get it wrong, which IMO is a very good trope not sure if it should be quite this one.

edited 6th Jan '12 4:26:27 AM by Raso

Yeah, all that stuff is Did Not Do The Research — Religion on the part of Japanese people, unless it's specifically a case where the thing is incorrect because the author in question inserted something that is specifically Japanese/Asian than they know, in place of an accurate portrayal. Compare Anime Catholicism.

I could see us split off a trope like Japanese People Know Nothing About Catholicism. Because Anime pretty consistently gets the broad strokes about the religion ridiculously wrong. A somewhat related topic to above, is that we probably need one, if we don't have it already that is like All Foreigners Know Japanese Culture or something, especially when it makes no sense for them to. Characters who it makes no sense for them to do so, casually quote Japanese stuff, talk about their history and culture, even if there are no Japanese characters in the show and it takes place in Europe or something.

edited 6th Jan '12 4:54:26 PM by NoirGrimoir

Anime Catholicism is now the general supertrope for innaccurate Japanese potrayals of Catholicism. Could some of the examples on Nuns Are Mikos be moved there?

That sounds a lot like But Not Too Foreign by making them blond, but still half-Japanese, with Japanese name and with a perfect understanding of Japanese language and culture. Tamaki in Ouran, Ayaka in Negima, Shinku in Dog Days..

edited 6th Jan '12 5:01:03 AM by Auxdarastrix

I was unaware that trope existed... yeah more than a few need to be moved over like Negima's Confessional chapter example. (which is sacrilege what Misora did and all she got was a few magic spells thrown at her.)

edited 6th Jan '12 5:03:23 AM by Raso

Yea..the examples seemed to be drifting, and I thought maybe it was because the description might be unclear..

More likely it's because Anime Catholicism is a new trope isn't it? And so a bunch of examples got shoved into the nearest existing trope instead, and probably still are. Have we added Anime Catholicism to the Nuns Are Mikos page?

Lets do that and then clean up examples.

Good idea. Then all the examples will be teenagers working as nuns as an afterschool job instead of 'this nun has a short skirt'

Uhh... no...

If the nun is battling demons as her main job then that's also Nuns Are Mikos. (The common fictional type of Mikos)

That's also a common fictional type of nun even in heavily Catholic communities. In fact it seems to be just a common trope for religious characters everywhere. It's oddly enough one of the things that least fits this trope.

Fantastic Catholicism covers the Catholic Church with fantastic elements added. It is a related to Religion is Magic and Christianity is Catholic.

Anime Catholicism covers the many ways that Anime tends to deal with Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular.

Nuns Are Mikos should be strictly confined to the definition given on the page, which is "Japanese works that portray Christian nuns as being similar to Miko (shrine maidens, shamans, spirit mediums)". It is a now a Sub-Trope to Anime Catholicism, though it predates it.

edited 8th Jan '12 11:06:54 AM by Auxdarastrix

I think if the nun produces a magical ward using ofuda- that' nuns are mikos. But often even in American works, you'll see nuns using magic. I think the heart of the trope is really that the nun is a miko in a different dress, with all the attendant cultural issues. For example, being a nun is not heridatary.

The page should probably have signs to tell if the nun is being treated like a Miko. i.e. they attend on a priest, can perform ceremonies, can marry or date, can be nuns as teens, etc.

I changed it around slightly.

So are we done?

I'm satisfied, but maybe it's just me.

Should this thread be closed?

Locking as requested.