Hackerspace Global Grid - Hobby Hackers Plan a Space Based Internet

So basically, with all the current issues coming up about censoring the Internet and such a group of hackers have decided to circumvent all that by creating their own free network based on privately owned satellites.

Here's the article from which I first learned of the news, the report by the BBC And here is the homepage of the project.

So, what are you thoughts on this project? Do you think it could work out? Should such a uncontrolled network be left alone by the world powers?

If I'm sure of something it's that I'm not sure of anything.

Wasn't China testing weapons to shoot down satellites not that long ago?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

Good luck with that. Really, Cause if they can do it then my building a personal moon rover isn't so far fetched. Seriously, Space launches are really expensive, and to do this you be creating a entirely differnt internet. That'd be a pain in the ass to say the least.

I'm baaaaaaack

This sounds prohibitively expensive for a bunch of hackers to implement. Although maybe we'll see some small innovations in internet and space technologies come out of it. *shrug* Still, very easy for someone to shoot that crap down if they do get something up in space, which itself begs the question of who could they convince to launch this for them.

Maybe they'll beg some rich guy to throw a mini-rocket out the window of one of the Virgin Galactic ships.

That might work though. Maybe they'd sell extra space on each flight for cheap, cause some cargo might be smaller then the max cargo.

I'm baaaaaaack

So they're in space... Somebody still owns those satellites, that someone is still a citizen of some country and thus subject to it's laws (and that country itself subject to pressure from other nations). So effectively this solves nothing, but it does point out the problem that is inherent to the whole SOPA/PIPA deal: We need to 'liberate' the root-servers from the governmental control of a single nation. The internet is an international entity and no single country's legislation should affect the whole of it.

As an aside, satellite internet isn't exactly new or anything, it already exists.

Second aside: commercial launches aren't exactly unheard of either.

Third aside: If anyone is going to shoot down satellites it'll be the US, they've already demonstrated the capability.

I like the idea but don't seeing it being possible unless they get some major backers involved.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

Hell, even aside from the issue of getting it off the ground, you'd have to put a lot of those things up there. Enough to advance the progression of Kessler syndrome.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

That's not how jurisdictions work.

More problematic is that current legal assumption is that sovereign air space extends indefinitely - i.e., also into orbit. Currently, nobody actually enforces that, but they could decide so.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

Meh. They do illegal shit, we shoot the satellites down. Target practice for experimental F-15 weapons. No biggie.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

It'd probably be cheaper to just ignore the law and proxy like it's going out of style.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

Ultimately, I'm more worried about cyberterrorism than copyright, here. I generally am unsympathetic to anyone who openly claims to be hackers...

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

^

And do those fighters have "MPAA" written on the wings?

I know the loophole, just make the holding company technically based out of Sealand, or any other country that has absolutely no censorship laws or any risk of them happening.

They will soon enough...

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

Sounds interesting.

Just wondering when Savage will say something about this — he'll love it...

Keep Rolling On

I do love it: Communications networks outside everybody's jurisdiction.

Yes, the dude who launches the satellite can be held liable. However, the satellite could blindly relay data without any way to prevent it from doing so: If there is no way to control or shutdown the satellite, there's naught the governments of the world can do save shooting it down... And they probably won't in practice.

If the data sent and retrieved uses strong encryption, censorship and surveillance are fucked... At least for a few years, and we'll design another tool to thwart them afterwards.

edited 5th Jan '12 6:38:08 AM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

I think that you are misunderstanding what they mean by that term.

Although the term "hacker" is often used to describe people who break into protected system or use their technological abilities for other less-than-reputable purposes, that's actually not the original meaning.

Wikipedia has a relatively in-depth discussion of the various ways in with the term "hacker" is used, as well as of the history of the term; but in brief, in the context of the article "hacker" means basically "computer hobbyist who likes to modify his/her own equipment", not "internet criminal".

edited 5th Jan '12 6:43:56 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

This won't go anywhere quick.

Also, as to hacker, that's not what it means anymore, really.

edited 5th Jan '12 8:08:35 AM by Flyboy

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

@Flyboy: Maybe not to the media, but among people that actually refer to themselves as "hackers", it mostly means "getting stuff to do things it wasn't designed for".

Case in point.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

~shrug~

Insofar as I'm concerned, this is a bad thing to allow from start to finish until further notice.

I doubt they'd even be allowed to launch the thing, and for good reason.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

Yeah, that plan strikes me as quite unfeasible. They are welcome to try, though, it'll be interesting in any case.

But in order to achieve their stated purposes, I get the impression that it would be far more useful to devote funding and effort towards the development of better, safer and more anonymous transmission protocols.

The current communication infrastructure is, to put it gently, less than optimal under a lot of points of view — that happens when protocols developed to transmit simple static documents between a few dozens of university mainframes are employed for something as pervasive as modern-day Internet.

Of course, getting an adequate number of users to switch to the new protocols would be a pain (just look at the lethargic rate at which the transition from ipv4 to ipv6 is going...); but it would still be miles easier than what they are trying to do.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I still go by Carcs definition. Then again I was there for the infancy of the internet.

I want the internet to stay the last wild west. I want someplace that isn't under strict control. We've got the internet, and space. With land based internet quickly coming under the grips of governments being puppets on a string behind corporations and organizations, combining space and the internet seems like the logical next step until I can grab a ride on a ship and become a colonist.

Article 6 of the Outer Space Treaty states: "The activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty." Signed and ratified by Germany. Ergo, if a bunch of Germans want to start space-internet, they can do so, but it becomes the 'problem' of the state of Germany.

Then there's Article 8: "A State Party to the Treaty on whose registry an object launched into outer space is carried shall retain jurisdiction and control over such object, and over any personnel thereof, while in outer space or on a celestial body. Ownership of objects launched into outer space, including objects landed or constructed on a celestial body, and of their component parts, is not affected by their presence in outer space or on a celestial body or by their return to the Earth."

edited 5th Jan '12 3:58:02 PM by GreatLich

Well there goes that idea...

@Barkey,

Frankly, fuck that shit. I doubt you have any concept of how horrendous an idea that is.

Then again, I imagine you don't really care, so I won't bother repeating again (and again, and again, and again) why the internet is not something to simply let free onto the world...

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

I completely disagree, simply because I trust commercial/government organizations to control, exploit, and manipulate the internet in unfair ways.

I want freedom damnit, not permission to have freedom, someplace that consists of real freedom, and the internet is the closest thing we have unless I decide to move to Mogadishu.

So to get around the Outer Space Treaty, the sponsoring organization needs to be a citizen of a nation that did not sign said treaty.