Powers trope or character trope? Rename proposal: Superpower Lottery

Um, no we're not.

That was the option that I read last time I went through that thread. You were rewriting your tiers to be entirely based on an out of universe standard in order to make clear divisions for comparing works to other works. Even if that's not the same case any more, that's still just a ranking scale for characters.

Not a trope saying that in a given work there's a big gap in power levels between some characters.

edited 8th Jan '12 1:18:59 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

@93 - You're doing a wick check? I was being lazy; I just checked the examples on the page itself and found the misuse that way. Do you have justification for the four examples that I posted? Especially for the Thor example? In that example, [i]none[/i] of the characters are compared. In fact, reading the example, the only conclusions you can make are A) Thor is a named character with the power of Mjolnir. B) He is from a race or country called Asgard, where they all have multiple superpowers.

You would guess that he was the strongest, but not only is that wrong, (clearly, Odin is more powerful) but also that this trope is about multiple powers, not relative power, because Thor is one example of a "named Asgardian". If I hadn't seen the recent Thor movie, I'd think he was just one character in a group who had similar abilities.

Also, if you're correct, and Combo Platter Powers is often the result of winning the Superpowered Lottery, then both tropes should mention that. Instead, there is no link for Combo from the lottery, and Combo refers to Lottery in terms of "keeps playing the lottery", which is usage type 4 on my list.

@95 - correct; in an In-Universe scale of 1-10, you could say that anything 8 or higher has won the lottery. The problem is that the description of the trope says that only the most powerful member "compared to everyone else in the story" qualifies as a winner. So while Superman is usually the winner within his own story, the description disqualifies him when it comes to Crisis-type crossovers.

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Mostly, you've objected to my point #1, that there is misuse for "characters have multiple superpowers". You agree that point #3 is the point of the trope. I hope you can see that someone can find #2 to be the point of the trope. So my question regards point #4; Do you think tropers are using this trope for the idea of characters getting additional powers later is playing the lottery?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Go to the check I did. Every example under "Character has a lot of power/Zero Context Example" goes like the Thor example you talk about. The character may be the most powerful (not like happens with Thor and Odin), but the rest is the same.

The line you mention in the description is the one I've been mentioning every time, but the only answer I get is "the trope is not about that, you're getting it wrong".

edited 8th Jan '12 1:46:36 PM by DrMcNinja

There are no heroes left in Man.

Crazy: Superpower Lottery is not "one person has better superpowers than everyone else", which is how you seem to be using it. It's "some people have better powers than other people".

Let's do an example using Power Levels. Let's say that a normal, non-superpowered person has a power level of 1. When people get superpowers, they're randomly assigned a power level. If most superpowered people have a power level of 5, but some have a power level of 10, then that's an example of the Superpower Lottery. The people with power level 10 have Won The Superpower Lottery compared to the people with power level 5. It doesn't matter how many people are at level 5 and how many are at level 10, or if people that are level 50 also exist. The trope is: powers are assigned randomly, some are more powerful than others. That's all.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

And now is when I have to ask you again that why you ignore the parts of the definition that oppose that. You apply to the trope a meaning that can't be found in the examples or the definition.

If the definition says "someone who won the Superpower Lottery has a completely overwhelming ability compared to everyone else in the story", that's everyone else, not just some of them.

There are no heroes left in Man.

The Laconic does say exactly that: "Some people's superpowers are much stronger than others."

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

But the definition makes clear that there can only be one winner per universe. And we have multiple winners in almost any universe you mention.

There are no heroes left in Man.

Your definition seems to be achieved by ignoring all but the second paragraph, so I would have to ask the same question of you. I can't find any one winner per universe limit. I'm really wondering if you're reading the same page as everyone else.

edited 8th Jan '12 2:11:26 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

@105 - the only way you can say that is if you've been ignoring everything I said.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

If the definition says "someone who won the Superpower Lottery has a completely overwhelming ability compared to everyone else in the story", that's everyone else, not just some of them.

I'll repeat that part as many times as it's necessary. And my definition doesn't ignore the rest of the definition, and I explained my opinion about every paragraph multiple times, post 79 being the latest, adressed to you, and not answered because it's always the same: I make a rant explaining my points to someone and another one changes the point, making me explain multiple times the same things while getting ignored.

edited 8th Jan '12 2:20:22 PM by DrMcNinja

There are no heroes left in Man.

@104- because the troop is not about the most powerful character. That line specifically refers to the lottery winner only. Nothing about the next most powerful or the least powerful characters. The lottery winner is defined as being more powerful than anyone else. But the trope itself is not.

edited 8th Jan '12 2:21:22 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I just meant "that's where that's from" and "if it's wrong it should be rewritten".

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

That's a really unproductive thing to say. I'm reading your posts and responding to them as best I can. If I'm misunderstanding you, then try to correct me — just saying that I'm wrong without further comment other than to accuse me of deliberately ignoring you doesn't help anyone.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

@ 112 The second paragraph talks about the winner. The third, the impact of the winner in the work. The lists are about the winner exclusively. If most of the definition is about the winner, how do you expect me to think that the trope is not about him?

And the examples in my wick check, those under "Character has a lot of power/Zero Context Example" just mention powerful characters. How can I think that the trope is about the contrast in powers and not about the winner of the lottery?

Somehow I get your explanations better, so please tell me about it. The first paragraph of the trope feels like an introduction to the main character of the trope and not like the true meaning of the trope.

There are no heroes left in Man.

@107- the trope itself is about how some characters are more powerful than others. There is a line in the trope that defines "winners". That line says "every other". That one line is not the whole trope, but one small part. Ninja-boy wants a rename. I think the definition could use some tweaking, and examples cleaning, in order to clear up what this trope is about.

@114- because your post was unproductive. You were explaining my point #3. Naturally, I find it offensive that you say I'm wrong and repeat one of my own points back to me.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

You said a thing. I thought the thing you said was wrong. I explained why I thought the thing you said was wrong. Instead of explaining how I was mistaken, you accuse me of not reading your posts. Obviously I'm reading your posts — that's what I'm responding to. If I'm misreading your posts, then tell me what I'm getting wrong, don't just accuse me of not reading it at all. The former allows useful discussion to progress. The latter just pisses people off.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

All right, as neither crazy nor ninja can argue on this topic without resorting to personal attacks I'm going to lock this topic for a while until people can calm down. I don't really need to see anyone banned over this topic. In a week or so we can reopen it if someone has actual issues that they can point out in a calm and reasoned manner without calling other tropers names.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick