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working on writeup for split tropes: Loads And Loads Of Races get usage counts

 51 shimaspawn, Fri, 17th Feb '12 7:21:19 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
That's far too broad and it will completely the way that races impact the story aspect of game play much more than any other customization option. It would effectively lump just changing hairstyles in with things that have actual game play effects. Races and classes both customize game play, but they do it in completely different ways and that makes them very different tropes.

edited 17th Feb '12 7:23:31 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 52 Noaqiyeum, Fri, 17th Feb '12 10:06:57 PM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
I said 'something like'.

While classes tend to define all your core abilities, races just tend to tweak a couple of stats and give different dialogue options. Many games use both and the effect on game play tends to be much different.

Is there a reason the race-related changes are basically cosmetic while the classes are more integral to gameplay?
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
 53 shimaspawn, Fri, 17th Feb '12 10:48:21 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Probably in part because race is obvious from looking at your character. It will adjust a few stats, but the bigger thing it does is change how the world reacts to you and how you look. It changes dialogue more than anything and it often puts you down different story lines.

In the end though, the most important thing is that they just aren't used the same in games. That's just not how the tropes work and designers use two different tropes for classes and races.

edited 17th Feb '12 10:48:54 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 54 lord Gacek, Sat, 18th Feb '12 7:36:39 AM from Kansas of Europe
KVLFON
I look at Age of Wonders as a good example. The game plays straight the Planet of Hats trope, so in order to have many playable factions, it has to have many playable races.
"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"
 55 Louie W, Sun, 19th Feb '12 1:41:37 PM from Babycowland
Loser
Here is the YKTTW for the Loads and Loads of Races supertrope. I am not confident that it looks that good right now and the description seems especially poor to me, so any feedback people would be willing to give would be appreciated.
"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
Current crowner totals:

Massive Race Selection +7 (yeas:10 nays:3) 3.33 : 1
Loads Of Playable Races +2 (yeas:6 nays:4) 1.50 : 1

All others are in red.
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Alright, it's been a week. The lead hasn't changed, and the totals haven't moved in several days. I'm bumping for votes since the totals are not super distant, but it could be called soon.

Does anyone have ideas for the descriptions for the new pages?

edited 28th Feb '12 10:25:27 AM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 58 shimaspawn, Tue, 28th Feb '12 10:38:03 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Calling the crowner in favour of Massive Race Selection
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Alright, looks like types 1 and 2 belong on the subtrope, while type 3 can be expanded on the supertrope.

What to do about this wording?
The cutoff point for the purposes of examples for both types 1 and 2 is set somewhat arbitrarily at 8 races; the cutoff point for type 3 is set at the somewhat lower 4 NPC * For the purposes of non-game settings, an NPC race is defined as a civilized race who has no characters above the level of a mentor in importance. races.
To me, this seems overly specific and unnecessary.

The image is potholed to its source website, but I can't tell whether it is a game, a non-game setting, or just that artist's invention. In either case, it should probably be replaced with something showing more than 4 races. The subtrope, at least, could easily get a collage of every World of Warcraft player-race.

edited 28th Feb '12 12:13:37 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 60 shimaspawn, Tue, 28th Feb '12 12:15:57 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Yeah, ditch the types. I don't think the number needs a firm numerical value. Just explain the trope without any types.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 61 Louie W, Tue, 28th Feb '12 8:33:38 PM from Babycowland
Loser
Would it be better to launch the Loads And Loads Of Races supertrope now and do the transplant or wait until it has gathered enough hats?

Given that the supertrope is not particularly groundbreaking, I feel like it would be alright to launch it now, but someone who is more experienced with YKTTW can feel free to overrule me here.

edited 28th Feb '12 8:33:50 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
 62 shimaspawn, Tue, 28th Feb '12 9:11:22 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think it could use a few more examples to be healthy and it can wait until we finish the subtrope to launch it.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
I'd rather see the subtrope launch first.

Rough draft here:

Sometimes, a Tabletop Game or Videogame setting just has a metric boatload of playable races — significantly more than the standard Five Races.

When making an RPG, game designers may want a lot of customization options. Classes may be restricted to the standard bunch, so they allow players to select from a bunch of races too. Now your options for creating your character aren't just limited to Human, Elf, Dwarf, Hobbit, and Orc. You can also play a Werewolf, a Cat Person, a Giant Monkey, a Robot, a Giant Robot Monkey, a Dwarf Giant Robot Were-Monkey, etc.

This tends to develop as new content comes out. What's the simplest way to bring something new to the sequel or new edition? Add in more races! Alternately, the designers wish to have a subfaction which specializes in one aspect of their Planet of Hats; this leads to speciation of the main faction into two or more subfactions. Editing game lore is always easier than editing canon.

These races may be even further subdivided into every possible variation.

This is a medium-specific subtrope of Loads and Loads of Races.

Laconic: You have a ton of options when choosing your player-character's race.

edited 28th Feb '12 10:11:42 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
I think the above description/laconic is too focused on role-playing games, when there are examples from other game types. For example, Age of Wonders is an example of a strategy game with a ton of playable races.
 
 65 shimaspawn, Wed, 29th Feb '12 10:35:26 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up] Agreed, the laconic needs to focus on character creation in general rather than RP Gs in specific. This can be a customization option in almost any type of game.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Haha, tongue well then clearly it needs to be written by somebody who knows jack about gaming! Anyway, I tried.

Since it is a game-only subtrope, does it make sense to split the examples more finely, into Tabletop RPG, Other Tabletop Games, RPG Video Games, Strategy Video Games, etc.? Or will that depend on how many examples it gathers in YKTTW?

edited 29th Feb '12 10:52:32 AM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 67 shimaspawn, Wed, 29th Feb '12 10:58:01 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up] It likely will.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Is anyone who's familiar with video games willing to write the new description for the subtrope Massive Race Selection?

Does the supertrope Loads and Loads of Races need to go through YKTTW?

edited 20th Mar '12 10:52:44 AM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 69 shimaspawn, Tue, 20th Mar '12 11:25:31 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up] The Supertrope is in the YKTTW.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Oh good! Will you please tell me the url?
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 71 shimaspawn, Tue, 20th Mar '12 6:17:56 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Here. I made a point of flagging it.

edited 20th Mar '12 6:24:48 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Thank you Shimaspawn, but I'm afraid that's Loads And Loads Of Sidequests...[lol]

edited 20th Mar '12 6:24:15 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 73 shimaspawn, Tue, 20th Mar '12 6:25:19 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
This one should be right. Sorry. The names are very close.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Thank you. Huh, somehow I had found it earlier. Forgot how to find it.

Since the current subtrope is going to be transplanted, does it makes sense to edit that one right on its article page?

edited 20th Mar '12 6:46:23 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 75 shimaspawn, Tue, 20th Mar '12 6:49:02 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think to. It just needs tweaks, and clean up with the bad examples moved to the YKTTW.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick

Page Action: Loads And Loads Of Races 2
22nd Oct '12 10:45:04 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
The games-only subtrope Massive Race Selection now has a minimum number: 6 playable races.

Loads And Loads Of Races is the non-gaming supertrope (non-playable races in fiction). Shall this supertrope have a minimum number of races in its definition? What should that number be?

Note that the examples and wicks are all over the place. If any number is chosen, cleanup will be necessary.

Also, should the description allow the trope to be an Informed Attribute, or should a "race" need at least a little description or screentime?
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