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Assuming the worst with writers when online.:

 126 Oh So Into Cats, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:42:42 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Often what happens with critique is you're told something you already know.
"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
 127 fanty, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:45:13 PM from ANGRYTOWN
Woefully Ineloquent
Plus, if it really is bad, there are subtler ways to say it.
The fact that people have to look for subtler ways of saying it simply ensures that there will be fewer people willing to take the effort to say it.

You don't need to sugar coat everything you say in order to be respectful.
One person's "respectful" is another person's "oh my god what atrocities are you telling me". Where does the line lie for every different person? How do you even know? Which goes back to my "it ensures that less critique happens" point.

Every time I get cripplingly mild critique, I shed a metaphorical tear. And when I realise that there are people who are not saying anything because they don't have time to sugarcoat, I shed an another metaphorical tear. By this point, I've shed enough of those metaphorical tears to feel quite angry about the whole issue.

edited 22nd Dec '11 3:49:23 PM by fanty

Individual liberation is an illusion.
 128 Noir Grimoir, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:46:47 PM from San Diego, CA
Rabid Fujoshi
[up][up]I think this is usually a good thing, actually, it validates your original thoughts on something. Two people agreeing with something lends it a stronger case.
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
 129 Oh So Into Cats, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:47:21 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Well, what are you trying to do? Get the person to keep writing or beat the writing itself into shape? Both of these goals are often in direct opposition.

[up] All it does is confirm your fears...

edited 22nd Dec '11 3:48:09 PM by ohsointocats

"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
read
You can't know, obviously, but you can't have things custom tailored to anyone standards, so it's usually a good idea to try and go with a general standard. Just like most rules of etiquette, there is no one set rule, as everyone is different.
oddly
Obsidian Proboscidean
I think we ned to define "respectful" and "sugarcoating."

Possible definitions:

  • Respectful: "Your characterization is somewhat off. I can't really tell the characters apart; in dialogue, it's as if the same person is speaking. However, you can fix this pretty easily if you (insert solution here)."

  • Sugarcoating: "Your characterization is a little off, but your description of their outfits is super!!!"

Maybe? Or maybe it's different for everyone (I'm trying to imagine how most people would define these things.)

(Ninja'd, so this post may not fit anymore.)

edited 22nd Dec '11 3:52:13 PM by BlackElephant

I'm an elephant. Rurr.
 132 Oh So Into Cats, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:51:19 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
[up][up] Well, this is just my opinion, but the obvious solution should be that the better the work is, the harsher the critique should be.

edited 22nd Dec '11 3:51:35 PM by ohsointocats

"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
read
[up][up]More or less.

edited 22nd Dec '11 3:52:15 PM by AtticusFinch

oddly
 134 JHM, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:52:03 PM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
[up][up][up][up][up] Not necessarily. It just proves the difference between what you think is an issue and what you know is an issue. Which is often good.

[up][up][up] Ayup.

edited 22nd Dec '11 3:53:06 PM by JHM

 135 Oh So Into Cats, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:53:55 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
[up] You think there might be a problem with X. Critique says that X is a massive problem.

X is because of Y, and Y is because of Z, and Z is the only reason the story can exist.

Solution: Burn the draft and write something else, denying everything.

edited 22nd Dec '11 3:54:22 PM by ohsointocats

"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
read
Cats, I think that would be a horrible idea.
oddly
 137 JHM, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:55:45 PM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
[up][up] Depends on whether or not you can justify X to the reader. And even then, Slippery Slope Fallacy.

Plus, if it's just that person saying it... well, that's something else.

edited 22nd Dec '11 3:56:29 PM by JHM

 138 fanty, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:56:27 PM from ANGRYTOWN
Woefully Ineloquent
@ Black Elephant: When I talk about sugarcoating, I'm not talking about making up praise.

Solution: Burn the draft and write something else.
But what's wrong with that? I abandon stories that don't quite work all the time. 95% percent of my stories never get out of my head, because of the crippling flaws.
Individual liberation is an illusion.
 139 Oh So Into Cats, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 3:58:25 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
[up] I've abandoned everything I've ever written for exactly this reason.
"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
 140 Mr AHR, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 4:00:09 PM from ಠ_ಠ Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
Because you should never get rid of when you can just rewrite.

For instance, I have a HUGE problem with my protag. He's supposed to be a twat, but I made him too much of a twat. If he wasn't a twat, the entire story would be ruined.

The solution? Make him a different type of a twat. Instead of confident in his delusions, I made him pathetic, panicky, and overly worried.

So don't burn. Rewrite.
 141 fanty, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 4:05:16 PM from ANGRYTOWN
Woefully Ineloquent
I've abandoned everything I've ever written for exactly this reason.
You might be taking things too seriously? During the summer I put together a story with the initial premise of "15 yo mistress shags up with her totally handsome 17 yo slave". That story went off the rails at point A, doesn't mean I didn't have copious amount of fun making it up. Not every story is meant for the outer world.

My writing improved dramatically when I started writing ten times less, and thinking ten times more. Quality over quantity and focus on your strongest ideas.

edited 22nd Dec '11 4:05:38 PM by fanty

Individual liberation is an illusion.
 142 Oh So Into Cats, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 4:06:47 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
[up] So, none of them are?
"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
 143 fanty, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 4:09:35 PM from ANGRYTOWN
Woefully Ineloquent
Huh?
Individual liberation is an illusion.
 144 Oh So Into Cats, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 4:11:14 PM from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
I am not exaggerating when I say I have abandoned everything I have ever written for exactly this reason.

I used to say that not all acorns become oak trees.

But, when none of them do, you begin to think it's not the fault of the acorn, but rather the fault of the oak tree.
"Beware of the wolves. They were raised by wolves."

Eidolonomics: ~60.4k/100,000 words
read
Of course, some people (like me) only have a few ideas. I've only ever had 3-4 solid ideas I'd call story worthy.
oddly
 146 fanty, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 4:16:58 PM from ANGRYTOWN
Woefully Ineloquent
I had once quit writing for two years because I had absolutely nothing to write, or, at least, nothing that I considered to be worthwhile. (I did write one short story, though.) You don't need to write all the time all your life. If you *genuinely* have no good ideas at the moment, then maybe you just need to take a break. (No, you won't forget how to write, that's impossible.)

edited 22nd Dec '11 4:17:35 PM by fanty

Individual liberation is an illusion.
 147 Schitzo, Thu, 22nd Dec '11 4:20:05 PM from Akumajou Dracula Relationship Status: LA Woman, you're my woman
TvT
If what you're writing about truly excites you, then maybe it's worth writing. If not, just write a little less.
ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.
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Total posts: 147
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