I changed accounts.Because the illegal immigration needs to end, so the oligarchs in Mexico can't use it as a distraction. I'd prefer it turned into legal immigration, but for that to happen the border must be secure, and the border guards can't do it. The military can.
@USAF If the US won't let these people in legally, with the justification being, "they're Mexican", why is it wrong for them to get in illegaly? And how the hell are the bastards that lead Mexico using it as a distraction?
I changed accounts.I don't like it. I'm not sure whether or not I think it's morally wrong. And, go and read the two articles I linked before. They explain it better than I could.
The stuff about NAFTA? I hate NAFTA too, but what does it have to do with illegal immigration? If you don't know whether it's morally wrong, what reason do you have for not liking it?
I changed accounts.NAFTA is the culmination of the oligarchy in Mexico's successful consolidation of money and power, and this is why the country is so damn poor and, in turn, why they come up here. The oligarchs use the plight of the illegal immigrants as a distraction, so they can paint the US as the enemy while they continue to exploit the country. It's bad because it's a terrible idea to have lots of people coming in without background checks.
@USAF So you'd rather that they suffer in a US and Mexican corporatist-created shithole? If the US can't handle the (comparatively non-harmful) consequences of NAFTA and their other interferences in Mexico, then they should stop supporting the tyrants there, and start supporting social justice there instead.
edited 21st Dec '11 6:17:48 PM by stripesthezebra
I changed accounts.
So you'd rather that they suffer in a US and Mexican corporatist-created shithole? If the US can't handle the (comparatively non-harmful) consequences of NAFTA and their other interferences in Mexico, then they should stop supporting the tyrants there, and start supporting social justice there instead.Um... I've been saying this whole thread that we should make legal immigration easier. And I would love to rewrite NAFTA entirely to do exactly that.
@USAF "I've been saying this whole thread that we should make legal immigration easier" I agree, but that doesn't seem to be happening, so why punish illegal immigrants? They're totally justified until the US has a functioning immigration system for Mexico.
I changed accounts.They're not justified at all, actually. I just don't think the effort of attempting to deport all of them is practical or humane.
@USAF "They're not justified at all, actually" They're totally justified in not wanting to suffer for no good reason.
I changed accounts.They're justified in not wanting to suffer, but they're not justified in circumventing US territorial and sovereignty rights to do so. Once again, this is merely an abstract. At the end of the day, the simplest solution is to rewrite NAFTA, shut the illegal immigration down permanently (primarily to kill the drug trade), and open legal immigration much more than it already is. The moral question is essentially irrelevant.
@USAF Well, I think they are justified, but like you said, it's irrelevent. I guess we're on the same page then. At least for this, unlike the Argentina thing.
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